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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 17TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA Case No. 09-062943 (07) _____________________________________________________ RAZORBACK FUNDING, LLC, et al., Plaintiffs, vs. SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, et al., Defendants. ____________________________________________________ DAY 5 - MORNING SESSION DEPOSITION OF SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN DATE TAKEN: TIME: PLACE: December 16, 2011 8:36 a.m. - 10:54 a.m. James Lawrence King Federal Justice Building 99 N.E. Fourth Street Courtroom 11-3 Miami, Florida 33128 Examination of the witness taken before: Michele L. Savoy, Registered Professional Reporter United Reporting, Inc. 1218 S.E. Third Avenue Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33316 (954) 525-2221 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1128 1 2 3 4 5 6 Plaintiffs, IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 17TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA ____________________________________________________ Case No. 10-24110 CACE (19) EDWARD J. MORSE and CAROL A. MORSE, and MORSE OPERATIONS, INC. 7 vs. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 11-03802-RBR Stettin v. Fidelity Gift Fund Defendants. _____________________________________________________ 10-03767-RBR Stettin v. Gibraltar Private Bank & Trust Co. vs. SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, TD BANK, N.A. and GIBRALTAR PRIVATE BANK AND TRUST COMPANY, AMY ADAMS, et. al, Plaintiffs, SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, et al., Defendants. _____________________________________________________ Case No. 11-CV-61688-JIC/LSS 21 11-02368-RBR Stettin v. TD Bank, N.A. 22 23 24 25 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ON BEHALF OF PLATINUM PARTNERS VALUE ARBITRAGE Centurion Structured Growth, LLC GOLDSTEIN, TANEN & TRENCH, P.A. One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3700 Two South Biscayne Boulevard Miami, Florida 33131 By: SUSAN E. TRENCH, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR SCOTT ROTHSTEIN: LAW OFFICE OF MARC S. NURIK 1 East Broward Boulevard Suite 700 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 BY: MARC S. NURIK, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR THE TRUSTEE: BERGER SINGERMAN 350 East Las Olas Boulevard Suite 1000 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 BY: CHARLES H. LICHTMAN,, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR THE TRUSTEE: GENOVESE, JOBLOVE & BATTISTA, P.A. 100 S.E. 2nd Street Suite 4400 Miami, Florida 33131 By: JOHN. H. GENOVESE, ESQUIRE DAVID C. CIMO, ESQUIRE THERESA M.B. VAN VLIET, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR RAZORBACK: CONRAD & SCHERER, LLP 633 South Federal Highway Eighth Floor Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33302 By: WILLIAM R. SCHERER, ESQUIRE REID A. COCALIS, ESQUIRE IVAN J. KOPAS, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR RAZORBACK: KOZYAK, TROPIN & THROCKMORTON, P.A. 2525 Ponce de Leon Boulevard Ninth Floor Coral Gables, Florida 33134 By: ADAM MOSKOWITZ, ESQUIRE United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES FOR RLI ZURICH INSURANCE COMPANY, COLUMBIA INC. & ZURICH INSURANCE: CLAUSIN MILLER One Chase Manhattan Plaza 39th Floor New York, New York 10005 BY: SCOTT L. SCHMOOKLER, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR FEDERAL INSURANCE COMPANY: ALEX HOFRICHTER, P.A 1430 South Dixie Highway Suite 204 Coral Gables, Florida 331463127 By: ALEX HOFRICHTER, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR MORSE: TRIPP SCOTT, P.A. 110 S.E. Sixth Street,15th Floor Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 By: GEORGE WALKER, ESQUIRE JOHN M. MULLIN, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR T.D. BANK: GREENBERG TRAURIG, P.A. 401 E Las Olas Blvd Ste 2000 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 By: DONNA EVANS, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR LEVINSON'S JEWELERS: KOPELOWITZ OSTROW FERGUSON WEISELBERG KEECHL 200 SW 1st Ave Suite 1200 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 333012073 BY: JAN ATLAS, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR THE COMMITTEE OF UNSECURED: AKERMAN, SENTERFITT One Southeast Third Avenue 25th Floor Miami, Florida 33131-1704 By: MICHAEL GOLDBERG, ESQUIRE United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1131 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SCHLESINGER AND COTZEN, P.L. 799 Brickell Plz Ste 700 Miami, Florida 33131 BY: MICHAEL J. SCHLESINGER, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROSEANNE CARETSKY Billing Cochran Lyles 515 E Las Olas Blvd Floor Six Fort Lauderdale, Florida 333012296 By: W. TUCKER CRAIG, ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR THE DEFENDANT: FRANK SPINOSA APPEARANCES FOR ST. PAUL FIRE & MARINE: MILLS PASKERT DIVERS P.A. 100 N Tampa St Ste 2010 Tampa, Florida 336025145 JOHN A. BLACK, JR., ESQUIRE APPEARANCES FOR EMESS CAPITAL, LLC: KLUGER KAPLAN SILVERMAN, KATZEN & LEVINE, PL 201 S Biscayne Blvd Fl 17 Miami, Florida 331314 BY: CASEY H. CUSICK, ESQUIRE United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1132 1 2 3 DIRECT INDEX CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr. Scherer Mr. Lichtman Mr. Rabin CERTIFICATE OF OATH CETIFICATE OF REPORTER FURTHER DIRECT 1133 1222 1224 1250 1251 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS INDEX NO. 168 169 170 171 DESCRIPTION Metadata and Email Trail Emails and Deal Documents Exhibit to the Complaint Multiple Emails PAGE NO 1147 1159 1168 1217 NO. 172 DEFENDANT'S EXHIBITS INDEX DESCRIPTION PAGE NO October 31, 2009, Email 1236 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCHERER: Q A Q Good morning, Mr. Rothstein. Good morning. I'm continuing on with my direct examination. Thereupon, the following proceedings were had: FURTHER DIRECT EXAMINATION We bring it up here because of the way we have tried to divide our time. I have got some time this morning, and It's going to be sort I'm going to try to be efficient. of in the nature of a redirect, a little bit, because I don't know -A Q Okay. -- I don't know if I have any time to redirect next week, and that is also just a little bit of direct examination. If you don't mind -- well, we might as well go through the drill: A Q I do. All right. And I would like this to kind of I would like you to keep your You know you're still under oath? be a lightning round. answers as brief as possible, consistent with you telling the truth, of course. A Q Okay. Obviously, if you want to explain, you can explain, but these questions are kind of like follow-up United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1134 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 questions. I'm going to try not to re-cover things that have been covered before or multiple times before. A Q you are. Okay. You know, I don't know if you have a TV where Do they let you watch FOX news, you know, how they do the lightning round? A I actually have a group of dancers in there -- please don't put that on the record. Q I was going to say, if you watch FOX news -- Lichtman doesn't watch it, so he wouldn't know what I'm talking about, but I am going to get you the question and you get the answer back so we get a lot of information out. A Okay? I watch one of the sports I have got that. channels, so I'm good to go. Q Unlike MSNBC where Lichtman watches, they kind of go a little slow and move along. MR. KOPAS: truth there. BY MR. SCHERER: Q By the way, from time to time, you know, we They get caught up on the have kidded around, like right now, and it looks like each and every time -MR. LICHTMAN: MR. SCHERER: You weren't serious? Right. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1135 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCHERER: Q Each and every time, you appear to have laughed, and did you take offense at any of the little small chit-chat that has gone on here? A Q Not at all. Okay. And did any of it in any way interfere with you telling it the way you remember it? A Q Not at all, Mr. Scherer. All right. Thanks. So, and it hasn't affected your testimony in any way, I don't think? A Q Not in the least, not at all. You were questioned by Ms. Morse's counsel about my motion to get the court -- a bankruptcy court to pay Mr. Nurik for his work in this deposition as a court cost. Do you remember her questions -- I started to say her testimony -- but her questioning you about that? A Yes, sir. MR. NURIK: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Is the fact that I filed that, is that It was almost testimonial. influencing your testimony here -A Q Not at all. -- in favor of my clients? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1136 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A anything. Not at all. Why not? Because I'm not bargaining my life with Okay? I have a -- promised the government I I promised the government I would tell would be here. the truth. I promised the government I would not hide anything and I have not been promised anything in exchange for that, at all. Q So you wouldn't risk a Rule 35 situation that may be in the cards for you by trying to help my clients recover? A No, not -- not at all. There is no reason to. The people that did bad things, did bad things, and that's what they did. Q One last thing on getting Mr. Nurik paid, if that ultimately happens -- and I asked you this, but I would like to reiterate it again -- by the way, Mr. Nurik has been with you from the beginning, as I recall? A Q From before my return from Morocco, yes. And he had something to do with you coming back, I think? A Q Yes. I mean, you obviously made the decision, but he helped you -- United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A But he was --- make that? He was instrumental in counselling me and guiding me through a very, very tough period of time. Q And he has continued to be with you when you have been questioned and when you have been involved in this process for the last two years? A Q A Q A Q A Q Yes. Knows a lot about the case? Yes. You talk to him frequently? Yes. If he wasn't here, would you be testifying? No, sir. Thanks. MR. SCHLESINGER: to that question. Just note my objection Mr. Rothstein already testified with Mr. Nurik not here. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Well, there was a time yesterday when Mr. Nurik was in court on another matter, and you did testify for the Trustee's questions for a few hours, correct? A Q That's correct. Would you have given a -- this deposition to United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1138 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Thanks. I would like to have you focus a little bit on the order that -- the fake order, as we have called it -- and you have talked about it, and you testified about it -- that was entered that you -- you forged me, and to the other people here who want to know your story, if Mr. Nurik was not available? A I have known some of the lawyers in this room for two decades, okay, but I don't care about how long I've known them; the only reason I testified for Mr. Lichtman, answering his questions when Mr. Nurik was not here, is that I had already spent three full days with him at another undisclosed location, okay, being debriefed pursuant to court order; and I was extremely comfortable that they were not going to attempt to take advantage of me during that time period, that they were going to be fair. I don't know everybody who is going to be questioning me. intention is. I don't know what anyone's actual I'm not going to answer questions of other people, unless Mr. Nurik is with me, just to protect myself -- not even you, Mr. Scherer, and I have known you a long time. Q All right, sir. Thank you. We're going to take your testimony here then. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1139 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Judge Marra's signature on this order that you concocted or drafted. A Q Okay. The Marra order, yes. The Marra order. And in that order, essentially, you ruled that the Morses are entitled to $23 million, I think: 21 million, punitive damages, and a million dollars, compensatory; or maybe 2 million compensatory and 21 million punitive? A Q I believe that's correct, sir, yes. And you also discussed that there was $10 million that you had -- your firm had found through investigators in various bank accounts for Jan Jones in the United States, in South Florida; is that right? A Q That sounds correct, yes. And $20 million in the Cayman Islands, I think, was in that order? A There was money referenced about us finding money in the Cayman Islands, yes, sir. Q And was there a -- did you have any telephone call hearings, fake telephone call hearings with -allegedly with Judge Marra leading up to the entry of that order? A Yes, sir. MR. MULLINS: Can I just raise -- I don't United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1140 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 want to interrupt you too often, Mr. Scherer; but I just want to make sure that I am asserting a standing, continuing objection to questions that you're asking about the Morses, about Ted Morse. You do not have a pending case that has been noticed in this deposition in which you have a protocol order allowing to you take that deposition; and the fact that I asked questions of the depo that I properly got permission for, I don't think gives you an opportunity to redirect on the Morses. So, I don't want to interrupt you all day, but I want it to be clear that we have a continuing objection to this line of questioning; and we're going to move to strike it, and we're going to certainly oppose it being used in any new case that you have not been given permission to question the witness on. MR. SCHERER: BY MR. SCHERER: Q I believe counsel for Morse testified -Thank you. examined you yesterday about that -- about that Judge Marra order. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1141 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A A Q You remember that? Yes, two different attorneys did. Yes. I don't think they asked you about whether or not there were any fake hearings, telephone hearings, that preceded the entry of that fake order that -- the drafting of that fake order. MR. MULLINS: Object to the form. I don't know that they asked me, but somebody questioning me yesterday at the hearings did come up, briefly, at some point in time. it did. BY MR. SCHERER: Q And the hearings where they -- tell us about At some point in time the hearings. A Okay. At various points in time during the -- what's called the "fake proceedings," leading up to and probably subsequent to those orders, there were multiple telephone hearings where Ed Morse, Ted Morse, myself, and someone playing the Judge Marra was on the telephone pretending to conduct a hearing, actually questioning Mr. Ed Morse with Mr. Ted Morse on the phone, with me on the phone, me actually making argument, and the fake Judge Marra actually ruling. Q And who was -- was there an actual person that played like Judge Marra? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q Yes, sir. And who was that? An attorney with my firm, Scott Goldstein. And did anybody on the phone on the Morse side know that Mr. Goldstein was acting, pretending to be Judge Marra? A Yes. MR. MULLINS: BY MR. SCHERER: Q And who was that? MR. SCHERER: Well, excuse me, what's the Object to the form. objectionable about that? MR. MULLINS: other people knew. speculation. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Okay. Do you have any information that You're asking him what You're calling for anybody on the phone -- I mean, obviously Mr. Goldstein knew he wasn't Judge Marra, right? A Q right? A Q A Yes. You set it up? I did. Yes. Okay. And you knew it was a fake hearing, United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1143 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q calls? A Q He was. And do you know whether Ted knew that it was a And you said Ted Morse was on each of those fake hearing? A Q A reasons. I do know. All right. Okay. And how do you know that? Ted knew it was fake for several One, I told him what was going to go on. Number two -- and I had a specific reason for telling him what was going on, because Ted -- anyone who does business with Ted knows, he is a bulldog. really needs information about something, thinks something is going sideways that could affect him or his family, he is a bulldog, and I needed to make sure he laid back. The second thing was -- and more than one person saw this -- Ted knew Scott Goldstein. spoken to him many times before. He had When he Scott used to come down from time to time and sit outside with us outside Bova and smoke cigars with us. On more than several occasions, as Scott Goldstein was approaching us, Ted would take his cigar out of his mouth and say, oh, here comes the judge now. Here comes Judge Goldstein -- I mean, Judge Marra. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1144 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q I would like to talk to you about the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals order, fraudulent, that was entered and drafted by you; and there seemed to be some confusion yesterday about that, about that order. A Mr. Scherer, one other important point on the fake hearings -Q Sure. Do you have another important point on the fake hearing? A Q I do. Okay. I would like to hear it. Objection to form. What is it? MR. MULLINS: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Wait a minute. He's objected to form. Let me start off again. Did we cover everything that was important on the fake hearings or on Judge Marra? A No. There was another hearing or two where Mr. Goldstein also pretended to be a circuit court judge in the actual case filed in circuit court on behalf of the Morses. clear. Q And I think you might have said, and I may I just wanted to make sure the record is have missed it, that there were some other people that were aware of this fake hearing, phone hearing, other than the people that we mentioned? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Well, the people who were sitting around with us at the time, I'm sure, would have heard Ted saying that, because he wasn't bashful about it. Q Do you have any recollection of any people that were around you that may have overheard that? A No. I have to think about who was actually It would have been our there during that time period. regular group of friends that I mentioned earlier. Q Okay. Do you recall how many of these fake telephone hearings were conducted? A I would say between four and seven, eight, something to that effect. Q And would they have all been before the date of the Marra order? A Most likely, but I can't be certain that we I know the circuit court didn't have some afterwards. one was before the Marra order because it was before I allegedly have the case elevated to federal court. Q And then you had the case elevated to the court of appeal, and there was some testimony about that yesterday? A Q Yes, sir. There seemed to be a little bit of confusion Do about when that fake Judge Black order was prepared. you recall the confusion? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A A A Q Yes. As I understand -- and it's in the document there -- that the document bore a date of August something? A Q Correct. And there was some email forwarding it to the Morses in October? A Q Correct. And you said you didn't know exactly when you did that order, couldn't remember? A I don't, without seeing the email traffic and the metadata, I have no way of remembering that. Q Let's see if we can't show you the metadata. Well, let me ask this: Would it refresh your recollection to remind you that perhaps you drafted that order on the eighth of September, the same day you did the Seltzer order? MR. MULLINS: Objection, form. That certainly is possible. BY MR. SCHERER: Q I mean, were you in the fake-order-drafting mode on the 8th, correct? MR. MULLINS: Yes, I was. Objection. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1147 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCHERER: Q According your testimony, you were drawing the Seltzer order on the 8th? A Q Correct. Okay. And there is quite a bit in the record on that already. Let me show you the -- what the metadata looks like, and we'll mark that as our next -MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 168 is the printout of the metadata from the fake 11th Circuit court order. There is no Bates It's a composite stamped number on that. exhibit, also with an email trail from September 8th, 2009, Bates labeled Rothstein 1180 to 1182. And I have copies for counsel. (Thereupon, the document was marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 168 for Identification.) BY MR. SCHERER: Q Have you ever seen what the metadata looks like from your computer before? A No. The only time I saw it was the other day in here when somebody showed me some. Q Yeah. Okay. You can see the document that's got the 11th United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1148 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2009. A Q Circuit order data on it, and you have got the related dates, and it shows when it was last modified, when it was created, last printed. Do you see that? I do. And go ahead and tell us when was it created and when was it modified and when it was printed? A It was created at 8:21 a.m. on September 8th, It was modified on September 8th, 2009, and 10:13 a.m.; and it was last printed on September 18, 2009 at 10:13 a.m., right after the modification, apparently. Q Okay. And the -- do you know when -- can you recall when Ted Morse came into your office that morning? A Yeah, it was around 10:00 or so. Ted was always on time for everything, so I -- someone sent me an email saying he's here. Q Yeah, there was an email that said Ted's here. I think we put that in the record, at 10:00. Do you have a recollection of whether Ted -whether you shared the Judge Black recently-created order with Ted when he was in your office? It looks like you printed it after he was there, 10:13; he arrived at 10:00. A My recollection, Mr. Scherer, is that I gave United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1149 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it to him while we were sitting in my office just to read. Q Now, there was a little questioning -- there was some questioning yesterday concerning when you started drawing the Judge Seltzer order and the exact order of what you did that day. A Q Yes. But let me -- before I ask that, was this Judge Black court of appeals, 11th Circuit Court of Appeals order that you forged on the 8th, the same day that you forged the Seltzer order in response to Carol's email, Carol Morse's email to you of a couple of days before, that asked for the orders in a threatening tone? A Yes. MR. MULLINS: BY MR. SCHERER: Q What was this order -- why was this court of Object to the form. appeals order done on the 8th of September? A Because I was in a panic over Carol creeping around, looking to try to figure out what I was actually doing. Q Yeah, and I think you testified, but I'll ask you again, you received that email from her, and you got the impression that she don't draw -- write that thing by herself, correct? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1150 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A That's correct. I already knew that she had been talking to her sister-in-law extensively about this. So it was clear to me that someone else had involvement, and it appeared to me to be a lawyer. Q Well, it was kind of drafted like a lawyer would draft an order? A It had language in it that I hadn't particularly seen in Mrs. Morse's prior emails. Q From her behavior from that point, on, did you have the belief, at that time, that she had a legal counsel that was advising her? A I did. MR. MULLINS: answered. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Okay. Did you ever discuss that with Ted Objection. Asked and during that period of time from September the 6th, when you received her threatening email, to the crash at the end of October, that you thought Carol might have a lawyer? A Q Yes. And would you describe your concern about her having a lawyer? A Yes. I told -- I called Ted immediately after I asked him -- I'll save you the getting the email. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1151 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be? A No. He told me -- he said she probably does. She Ted? A Q Yes. Do you recall telling Ted that you thought she language. I asked him what the "F" was going on. I said, she is all over me. stop this. We need to do something to You need to She's You need to talk to your dad. quell the situation. I can't function like this. going to blow this whole thing up, and we're all going down over it. Q So would that have been one of those mutual destruction talks that you talked about here in the last -A DOMAD. Yes. Ted knew what that was, the doctrine of mutually assured destruction. Q DOMAD. All right. So, you had one of those kind of talks with had a lawyer? A Q Yes. Okay. Did you ask him who that lawyer might He kept telling me, she's driving my father crazy. is going to end up killing him. getting out of hand. This whole thing is She's I'll see what I can do. getting out of control. Even Ed can't control her United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1152 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A anymore. Q Well, did you have any discussions with Ted about what it would take to prevent Carol and her lawyer from blowing the whistle on your Ponzi scheme? there any discussion about that? MR. LAVECCHIO: I have to assert an Was objection -- Larry LaVecchio on behalf of the government. I have to assert a government investigator privilege at this point. MR. SCHERER: All right. Okay. Let me see if I can -- I'll honor the privilege, certainly, but let me see if I can get around it a little bit. MR. LAVECCHIO: It's a question-by-question issue. MR. SCHERER: it works. BY MR. SCHERER: Q A Q Mr. Rothstein? Yes, sir. If Carol Morse had blown the whistle on you at Yes, sir. I understand how It's not my first rodeo. that point, do you think the Ponzi scheme could have continued? MR. MULLINS: Objection. Absolutely not. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCHERER: Q A And why do you say that? Because she was one of the lynch pins based upon the fake court orders, the sheer amount of money that I had stolen from Ed and Carol, the amount of focused fraud I had levied in their direction, it just would have -- the whole entire thing would have come tumbling down; and I knew it and so did Ted. Q Well, obviously it didn't come tumbling down until the end of October, correct? A Q Correct. My clients put maybe $100 million into the Ponzi scheme between September 6th and the end of October. A Q A Q ask this: That's correct. And -They did. And the financial records show -- well, let me Do you know how much the Morses received -- the Morse operation and Ed and Carol on the phony bond repayment during that last two months or so before the crash of the Ponzi. A I believe I gave them just shy of half their money back, $25 million. Q That's okay. That's right. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1154 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A And they had an expectation of the phony bond -- of the phony judgment recovery, plus the interest on the bonds, plus some profit on the deals, of about another 25 to 30 million; is that your recollection? A Correct. Yes, sir. Objection, form. MR. MULLINS: BY MR. SCHERER: Q What is your recollection of what their expectation was in addition to getting their money back? MR. MULLINS: Objection. Ed and Carol had an expectation, as did Ted, that I would repay all of the bond money back; and Ted expected me to be able to not only repay the bond money back, but to repay all the deals with interest. BY MR. SCHERER: Q A Okay. And because of my relationship with Ted, I will tell you that it was absolutely my goal at that point in time to do everything I could to make sure that, at the least, Ed and Carol were made completely whole and hopefully I would be able to get Ted all his interest. Q judgment. Well, then he had a $23 million phony Was it your intention to pay him that, if you United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A had the money? A Q Absolutely. So that his expectation would have been some 25 to 30 million more from September to the end of October? MR. MULLINS: Object to the form. At that stage of the Ponzi scheme, in order to keep it from blowing up, I would have had to continue to make all the payments to everybody. As you know, from reviewing the history, as it got closer and closer to blowing up, I focused the payments towards the people that I wanted to make sure were made whole. BY MR. SCHERER: Q And were the Morses in that group of people you wanted to make whole? A Q bottom? A Q A That's correct, Mr. Scherer. Any reason that he was at the bottom? He was not anywhere near my best friend. He They were at the top of the list. And Mr. Von Allmen, my client was at the was to me, an acquaintance, who was certainly becoming a friend; but he was an acquaintance, and I viewed him as someone who was extremely wealthy who could withstand United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1156 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A the loss. Q I would ask during that time frame, from September the 6th, when Carol Morse wrote you that disturbing email, until the crash, did she continue to press you for repayment? A You know, I don't have an independent You'd have to show me emails. I mean, recollection. every -- during that period of time, I can tell you I was getting continuing pressure from the Morses to get as much money to them as possible. Q A And you were doing that? I was. I believe I was sending them money right up to the last minute. Q So, their silence in not blowing the whistle on the Ponzi scheme benefited them in the money that they got back between September the 6th and the end of -- and the crash, correct? MR. MULLINS: Objection to form. Of course it did. MR. SCHERER: MR. MULLINS: What's wrong with the form? You're assuming that the Morses all knew about the Ponzi scheme and kept silent about it. evidence. BY MR. SCHERER: Assumes facts not in United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q scheme? A Ted did, and Carol certainly suspected it -- I Well, did the Morses know about the Ponzi don't know that she suspected it was a Ponzi scheme, but she certainly suspected that I was stealing her money and committing fraud. Q And, so, rather than blow the whistle on what she suspected, what did she do? A Q She continued to receive money from me. Now, you know that my clients, Razorback and D3, put approximately 50 million in the Ponzi Scheme in October. A Those are the dates of Razorback and D3? Right. They were at the very end of the Ponzi scheme, correct. Q Right. 50 million in and Mr. Sochet was putting money in at the same time; do you recall that? A Q He was, sir. So, the 100 million that I represent that my clients had invested in your Ponzi scheme from September to the end of the crash, I said it was about one-hundred million, plus or minus, you know, millions, I don't know, but a lot of money? A Q Yes, sir. Was any of that money used to repay the Morses back the 20 or 25 million that you paid them back United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1158 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q between September 6th and the crash at the end of October? A Q Yes, sir. Now, I asked you whether Ted Morse knew the settlements were fake, and there was some discussion of that; and I'm asking you again, did Ted Morse know at some point in time that these settlements that you were doing or your settlement business was a fraud? A Yes. MR. MULLINS: answered. BY MR. SCHERER: Q I'm going to show you some paperwork, I don't Do you remember when I examined you Objection, asked and think I did that. about the two deals that Mr. Morse invested in, 700 cash with 300 back and then 700 cash and 300 back by two of the deals twice; do you remember that? A Q Yes, I recall that. And then you recall that when you did the Ponzi paper, as I called it, the settlement paper, that you didn't do two $1 million deals; you did one $2 million deal. Do you remember questions about that? I do, sir. Let me show you those documents and just put United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1159 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 those in the record. MR. KOPAS: All right. Plaintiff's 169 is a composite exhibit, four emails relative to four deals in March of 2008, and then deal documents for what are RRA M1 and RRA M2, two deals, no Bates numbers, but these actually were produced before. (Thereupon, the document was marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 169 for Identification.) BY MR. SCHERER: Q Mr. Rothstein, take a look at that. I think those are the documents on the two $700,000 money-in deals with punitive payments of -- no, they weren't punitive they were actual payments of $300,000 profit? A Q A Q Correct. You see that, paid in ten weeks? I do, sir. Okay. And that's on the email traffic back and forth, the email dated Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, right? A Q Yes, sir. Now, I would like you to go -- look at the -- what I call the Ponzi paper there or the deal documents that are attached in that composite. Do you see those? That would be RRA M1; I guess that's Morse 1? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1160 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A A Q Yes. Okay. Morse 1 and Morse 2. Did you combine the two of those settlements into one set of papers? A Q A Yes. And that's what these documents represent? Yes. Neither Ted, nor I, nor Debra was creating -- could have cared less as to what the paper looked like, as long as it passed muster with the auditors. Q Plus Ted knew there were no settlements and this was all fake? MR. MULLINS: Yes. Objection to the form. Ted asked me to create the paperwork, so absolutely, yes. BY MR. SCHERER: Q But knowing that there was no settlement, that there were no -- or accepting that there were no punitive funds held in trust, you know, the whole spiel, he knew it was a fraud? A Of course. I mean this paperwork was created after he had already started receiving his money, so it must be fake. Q Got it. Thank you. You testified on my direct examination a few days ago that Ted knew that Doug was in -- Doug Von United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1161 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 more. A Q Okay. The question is, did Ted ever talk to any of Allmen was an investor and vice versa; do you remember that testimony? A Q I do. You testified yesterday, or you were questioned yesterday, about whether Ted talked to any of the investors; and you said, yes, Razorback. counsel went on to another subject. Let me see if we can explore that a little Then the Ponzi investors, and your answer is? A Q Yes. And who did he speak with, that you know of, regarding the Ponzi investors? A Q A Q Of all the Ponzi investors? Yes? Oh, lord, okay. Let's start with my clients first and then we'll -- well, let's talk about the Razorback first, because you talked about that yesterday and then didn't follow up on it. A Okay. Ted spoke to Doug Von Allmen. He met and spoke with A.J. Discala. Bekkedam. He spoke with Barry He spoke with He spoke with Dean Kretschmar. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1162 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Szfranski. Mike Szafranski. Ira Sochet. He spoke with -- he didn't speak with I don't think he ever met Ira -- oh, he That happened at Bova a couple spoke with Barry Damson. of times. He met with -- he spoke with -- at various points in time all of the hedge fund guys, I think, except for Gil Kalter; and let me see if I can name them so the record is clear for you. He definitely, as I said, spoke with Mike He definitely spoke on multiple occasions He spoke with -- I don't believe he with Jack Simony. spoke with Mr. Nordlicht. Q A Ari Glass? I don't recall him speaking with Mr. Glass. He only actually did speak with Gil Kalter because Gil was a voracious Miami Dolphins fan. In fact, he came from New York -- and Ted is a big Dolphins fan -- and I remember we were all together. It was actually at one of the games that I brought Gil to. Who else? There are -- two of the other investors that are -- were also in the know on the thing. Gary Lipsitz and Domenick Tonacchio, who were He knew them very well. early and late investors. Q And by knowing them, did he know they were Did Ted know that the people investing in the fraud? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1163 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q that you just identified were investors in the Ponzi scheme? A All of the ones that I mentioned, Ted knew about, yes. Q Did you overhear their discussions? Did they talk about the Ponzi at all or the investments or the settlement investments? A Q Okay. We never discussed the Ponzi scheme. That was a bad question. I understand that. You have already told us that a bunch, and I'll try not to do that. Did he talk about the structured -- the settlement, confidential settlement program? A Let me clarify my statement so this is not misconstrued. When I say we never talked about the Ponzi scheme, I mean that when we are sitting around in a group, like a meeting with me, Domenick and Barry, we didn't say, how is the Ponzi going. Q A Right. Okay. We certainly, individually, frequently talked about the fraud and things that were going on; but that out-loud group thing, that did not occur. So, your question now is? Well, my question now is, what -- did Ted also United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1164 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 talk with investors in the confidential settlement program that did not know they were investing in a fraud? A Q A Sure. Like some of my clients? Sure. Ted would say to various people, I told you it was -- it was one of his favorite comments: Scott is -- especially during the downturn of the car business: Scott is our most-profitable car dealership. We're going to give him a sign, you know, the Scott Rothstein -- I'm going to get the award for the most-profitable car dealership. Q Do you have a recollection of him making comments like that, or similar to that, to A.J. Discala and Dean Kretschmar, Doug Von Allmen? A The comments to Doug Von Allmen were not of The comments -- the conversations, to the that nature. best of my recollection, with Doug Von Allmen were very, very simple as to how the investment is going, nothing more complicated than that. Doug is not the -- there was not that kind of jovial thing back and forth between Doug and I and Ted and I. Q How did Ted say the investment was going to Mr. Von Allmen or to my clients, to your knowledge? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 effect of: Q A A A with it. I believe he said that he was very satisfied It was a very -- I recall, only because it was It wasn't Ted's normal, a very business-like answer. you know: of thing. Q He's our most profitable car dealership kind It wouldn't be a flamboyant answer; it would have been a business answer? A Q It would have been a business answer. Because Mr. Von Allmen is more of a business-type man? A Q Yes. He's extremely proper. He is extremely? MR. LAVECCHIO: Proper. He's extremely proper. In fact, he once wrote me an email, before we were getting ready to talk to some investors on the phone reminding me there was a lady on the phone. I actually wrote him back something to the Got it, language to be adjusted properly. He doesn't use swear words, does he? No, he doesn't, not -- I have never heard him curse before, no. Q I'm going to get back to the September 6th date, '09, Seltzer order in a minute. A Is that the 6th or the 8th? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1166 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Q I'm sorry, the 8th, precipitated by the email of the 6th, the -A Q Yes. -- order on the 8th. Thank you. But we're trying to get some documents. Do we have them? Just give me a second here. Yes, sir. All right. Let me go ahead and try to do this now so we can keep this all in context. On the 8th of September, Mr. Morse is in your office at 10:00 a.m.? A Q reception? A Q Correct. And then you and Mr. Morse -- what did you do Do you have a recollection of Correct. There's an email that says to you, Morse is in when he first got there? what you did before you went to judge -- well, let me see if I can get the broad strokes first and then I'll fill in. A Q Okay. After he arrived at 10:00 a.m., thereafter, you have testified that you went to Judge Seltzer, the two of you, and then you went to Weston to get the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1167 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 testimony? A Q To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Okay. What I want to do is, I want to show bank -- the phony bank balance. your office. You then talked to Ed on the telephone and said, send me authorization for Ted to testify. And Then you came back to then he sent you authorization for Ted to testify. Then you, at 4:30 in the afternoon, sent Ed and Carol the Seltzer order and there was a phone call at that time where Ted told them about the order and read parts of that to them. Is that a correct restatement of your you some composite exhibits, and we'll put those in as our next exhibit so that you can refer to them and we can maybe shorten the times, although we don't need to shorten them much. A Okay. MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 170 is a composite exhibit, and these are the exhibits to the complaint we filed against the Morses on Tuesday. MR. MULLINS: Objection, move to strike, and asked and answered. (Thereupon, the document was marked as United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1168 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit No. 170 for Identification.) BY MR. SCHERER: Q Well, I don't mean to -- if it's been asked and answered, Mr. Rothstein, you just say that, and I'll accept it. it. A No. I can tell you that, based upon the But I think we need a little more clarity on series of questions I have been asked so far, it definitely requires clarity. People have been kind of jumping all over the place with this. Q Now, between ten -- and you see that -- you see a picture of you and Ted at the bank there. What is the date of that? It's September 8th, 2009, at 12:45. So we know at 12:45 you're in Weston getting the phony bank balance? A Q at 10:00? A Q A Yes. Now, between 10:00 and 12:45, what did you do? Okay. Ted gets to the office at 10:00. I go Correct. Now, and we know that Ted was in your office get Ted immediately, because as anyone that that's done business with Ted knows: You don't leave him waiting. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1169 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So I went -- even as my best friend, I don't want to hear it. to the office. At that point in time -- you should have the metadata somewhere -- but we are messing around with the order, initially. created. Q A And is he helping you? He's helping me to the extent that I'm asking That's when it's initially being So I went and got him. We went back him -- you know, we talked about his -- what his role was going to be -Q A Okay. -- and how much of that I was going to put in the order, because I was not going to put him in a position where he had to say something to his father that he himself was not comfortable saying. So we went ahead, and I finished up the order. Following finishing up the order, I gave the order to Deb. Ted. Deb and -- this part is unbeknownst to Deb goes ahead and cuts and I give that to Deb. pastes Judge Seltzer's signature on to the order, puts it in an envelope for me and gives me the order. Ted and I leave to go to Judge Seltzer's. We arrived at Judge Seltzer's. When I get to Judge Seltzer's chambers, after his secretary announces United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1170 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 me, I go in with Ted. I introduce Judge Seltzer to Ted. The remainder of the time that Ted is in there with me, we are simply talking -- Judge Seltzer had upcoming nuptials; we were talking about that. Judge Seltzer and I generally talk about skiing, we talk about some sports, and then I excused Ted. At that moment, I wanted Ted, for my own purposes, to believe that I had Judge Seltzer in my pocket; and Ted, having known that I had a lot of politicians, law enforcement people and the like in my pocket, it was not very difficult to believe because he had used those people before. So I went ahead and had Ted step out. while Ted is obviously thinking I'm getting Judge Seltzer to sign the order, I talk to Judge Seltzer about his upcoming potential eventual nomination to the federal bench by the president, and we are just kibitzing about general stuff, talking about general stuff. I then take the order. I then take the order. I then, Judge Seltzer had given me -- I asked him for a notebook of all his, you know, resumes, his CV, all of his accomplishments, because I wanted to send that off for him to people regarding the federal judgeship. I took the order and placed it inside the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1171 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 inside sleeve of the notebook. Ted. I then went out with We left. I took Ted, said good bye the judge. As we were walking over there, I pulled the order out, at some point in time. I don't remember whether it was while walking over there or later; but at some point in time I take the order out of there and give it to Ted. Q Now, did you discuss with Ted the purpose of I mean, why did you do that if going to Judge Seltzer? he was going to go along with the farce anyway? A For whatever reason, at that point in time, I wanted Ted to believe that I had a member of the federal judiciary in my pocket. Q A Q Okay. Did -- Which I obviously did not. You know the order referred to Ted testifying. Did you attempt to give Ted some kind of alibi that he thought what you did with Judge Seltzer was a hearing? A No. Please allow me to explain what occurred while we were in there. Ted, during the course of this, barely said anything at all. Ted. It was the quietest I had ever heard He was actually the most demure I had ever seen United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1172 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 him during my entire friendship with him. He barely said anything, which was really not like him. But there was no way in the world that Ted thought a hearing was occurring, okay, nothing of the sort, nothing to lead him to believe it. There wasn't even any discussion about Ted being involved in any type of litigation. Nothing of that nature happened. What Ted believed was that I went in there privately and somehow got Judge Seltzer to sign that order. Q Now, I'd like you to look at the next document You've got the -- in that composite. A Q A Q A Let me just -Go ahead. Which, by the way -Have you finished? No. Which, by the way, is consistent with Ted's understanding of my influence in the community in general. It would have elevated what was my actual level of influence over and above what it actually was, because I did not have any federal judges in my pocket, certainly not Judge Seltzer or anybody else involved. Q Okay. I'd like you to look at the -- you've got the bank visit, and I think we have already talked United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1173 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about that; but the document shows you in the bank, and I'm interested in the timing. A Q A Q Yes. And it's 12:45? Correct. Then look at the next couple of documents, those -- that is the phony statement and the Caretsky cover letter. A Q Yes. And then there's the metadata. I would like you to look at that. It looks to me like you did some If you can see the more drafting of that order. metadata up at the top, the -- go back to the -- may I show you the -- let me do this. haven't walked over. MR. SCHERER: here close? MR. NURIK: come around. BY MR. SCHERER: Q This appears to be a -- a drafting and then a You can come around. You can May I, Marshal, go over I haven't done this. I printing of the final, so it looks like -A Q Okay. And then you have the metadata that actually shows the date of the final printing of the order. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1174 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A A Q Do you see that? I do. Now, after you -- apparently more drafting on that order took place after you returned from the bank. Do you recall that? I have a vague recollection of me making certain corrections to the order. Q A Q Okay. I don't know exactly what they were. You can pretty much tell by looking at those It's pretty much the same successive copies there. thing, it looks like, only one was in regular form and one was in final form. And then somewhere along the line, you had to cut and paste judge's signature? A Yes. What -- at some point in time, okay, prior to me giving -- it looks like Pam was working on it, which makes sense because -Q A Q A Pam? Pam Dominicis. Right. It looks like she was working on it at some point in time. Q A Q At what time? At 1:54 p.m. Okay. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1175 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A And then this -- it says "last modified," it looks like some kind of modification was made actually after it was last printed. That's correct, because it says September 8, 2009, 2:24 p.m. last printed; it says last modified two minutes after that, which may have just been the methodology that Pam was using to notate it for later purposes to be able to access it. anything the way that works. Q It's at 2:25 p.m., correct, or around that It could have been time, around 2:30? A Q A Q Yes. And Ted is still with you, correct? Yes. And then do you see an email from Ed I think that's in there, authorizing Ted to testify? right? A Q A Yes. Okay. What time was that? I just Mr. Scherer, bear with me one second. want to make sure that we got this from the right order. Q A Right. No. Okay. We're in the right order. And what time does Ed email you Can I help you? All right. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 back that it's okay for Ted to testify in the hearing before Judge Seltzer that you -- you know, that you already had the visit for? A Q A Q 2:25 p.m. And Ted is still there at that point, right? Yes. Ted was with me the entire day, yes. Ted and then you, apparently, waited a few hours before you emailed Judge Seltzer's order; do you see that? Do you see the date or the time of the email or the order? A Q A Q I do. What time was that? I emailed the order at 4:11 p.m. And was there a phone call between you and Ed, you and Ted and Ed and Carol at that time that you emailed the phony order to them? A Q Do you recall that? A telephone call, sure, there was, yes. And do you recall what happened on that phone call, what you said, what Ted said to Ed and Carol? A Q A I do. What was that, please? I called up Ed on the phone. I had Ted sitting with me. We were actually sitting at the I had the speaker conference room table at my office. phone on. I told Ed Ted was with me. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1177 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it. with Ted. I told Ed we won. I explained the basis of We did a conference call. We dialed -- I I don't know if we dialed Carol in or not, actually. have to look at her telephone records. But in any event, I know Ed was on the phone I told him that he should be very proud of Ted, I said, because without Ted's sworn testimony, there was no way that the judge was ruling in our favor, that he really was the star of the order and the hearing and not me. I said -- told him -- I think I actually wrote it in a subsequent email, something about that I would love to take the credit for this but I can't; it really all goes to his son, to Ted, for his testimony. Ed then spoke to Ted while we were there and asked Ted some very specific and pointed questions about the hearing, specifically what the judge asked him and the like. Ted answered all the questions by lying to And I gave Ted his father, and we wrapped up the call. a copy of the order to take with him, and I also emailed the copy to Ed and Carol. Q There were some more emails in the days that followed between you and Ed and Carol, and you -- where you, again, invited the father to talk to his son, if he United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1178 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it? him. Q Do you know whether they actually spoke about didn't believe you about the hearing and Ted's testimony. A You do recall that? Yes. It was more directed to Carol. I repeatedly told Carol, because she -- she sent me that very terse email back at one point in time saying, well, that's amazing how you got this whole thing handled, the IRS and the hearing, you know, the bond funds in eight hours, isn't that amazing. Q A Right. So I wrote her a strong email back, and I Something to that effect. invited her, in that email and on multiple other occasions, if you don't believe me as to what happened, ask Ted -Q A Did --- Ted was there. Ted testified. Talk to Did she ask Ted? A Ted hated Carol. He probably avoided her, so I don't know; but I know Ted spoke to his father. Q Okay. And what do you know about that conversation? A testimony. I know that Ted told him repeatedly about his He was using it to bolster his own worth in I mean, it was clear that was going his father's eyes. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1179 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on during the course of the initial conversation. Q And during those conversations, Ted would lie to his father that he testified at a hearing before Judge Seltzer when you guys visited Seltzer that day on the 8th, correct? A Q A testified. That's absolutely correct. All right. I mean, the order is clear that -- it says Ted It says, under oath, that he testified under oath; and I believe the word -- either "at length" or "extensively." Q Who was keeping track of the mathematics, the accounting on the -- all of the payments that were due under the bonds, under the deals, and the interest, et cetera, for Morse operation and Ed and Carol under the bonds? A Dennis McGinnis and Michael Kelly; and I don't internally, my office, either Irene or Deb. know which one. Q I'm not sure we're doing lightning rounds, but -- it's going fast for me, but they tell me I'm going slow. So I would like to kind of see if I can't move it along because others need an opportunity. Let me direct -- I have a few questions to TD Bank that's more in the nature of redirect, I think. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1180 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Okay. The -- on the cover letters that Caretsky, and on a few occasions Kerstetter, did to accompany, the fake statements, and I believe that you have testified pretty completely about that whole process, correct? A Q Yes, sir. And I asked you this, but I don't think it was 100 percent clear, that every time that they did a cover letter, the cover letter was original; you never faked any cover letters? A letter. Q To my recollection, we never faked a cover We didn't need to. Yeah. And is your understanding that every time they gave you a fake cover letter, they asked the bank's -- they made a -- printed a screen shot from the bank of the actual balance to go along with the cover letter? A Q A Yes, sir. So they would have some deniability? Yes. At one point in time I asked Ms. Caretsky, I said, you know, I don't need these, just stick them in the file. She said, no, I need to show that they were printed at the time that I wrote this letter so we have United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1181 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A a complete record. Q And, of course, those printed, actual bank statements nowhere near matched the fraudulent statements that you were providing for the switch, correct? A Q No, sir. Now, with Mr. Spinosa, I know that he met with some investors to talk to them about your business and to vouch for you and to vouch for the authenticity of the lock letters, correct? A Q Yes, sir. And I know that he also had meetings with some Barry Damson and investors that you talked about: Kathleen White for Coquina, where Mr. Spinosa actually affirmed false balances in the falsely locked account, correct? MR. SCHLESINGER: Correct. Objection to form. BY MR. SCHERER: Q What did Mr. Spinosa tell Barry Damson and Kathleen White on Coquina when they visited his office in Cypress Creek with you concerning the bank balances? A He told them that we had -- it was in excess -- I don't remember what amount we were looking at the time, but whatever the amount was, several tens United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1182 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of millions of dollars, he verified to them that we had in excess of that amount in the account. Q A Q And that was a lie, of course? Yes, sir. Now, do you have a recollection of Mr. Spinosa meeting with Ira Sochet? A He may have. I don't have a specific recollection of it. Q A Now -- okay. He may have had a telephone call with I don't recall whether Ira did or not. Mr. Sochet. Q A Q A Q A Q Ira Sochet, nice man? Yes. Wonderful man. In his 80s? Yes, sir. Did you take advantage of him? I did, sir. Well, would you describe how you took Did you take advantage, advantage -- let me ask this: also, of his age in any regard? A Q A I did, sir. How? He was in a stage in his life where he was -- from what I understand from Mr. Szfranski, who had known him a lot longer than I had, he had mellowed, and he was United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1183 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 very trusting; very sharp but very trusting, and I took advantage of that. Q fraud? A Q A Q A Q He did not, sir. In your mind? No, sir. Same question for Mr. Von Allmen, did he know? No, sir. Now, would you describe your relationship at Did he know that you were running a scam or a TD Bank as atypical, as an atypical banking relationship? A Q That's one word, "atypical," not; "a typical." No, no, no. Was it atypical. That would be one word, A-T-Y-P-I-C-A-L. relationship? A Q A Q Was it an atypical Yes, it was an extremely unusual relationship. Unusual or atypical? Yes. Would you say that TD provided you with special accommodations -MR. SCHLESINGER: BY MR. SCHERER: Q -- in the way they handled your accounts and Objection. you as a customers? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1184 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do. MR. RABIN: MR. SCHERER: to coach this guy. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Would you describe your relationship with Thank you. I don't think you're going A A Q Yes, sir. Without TD Bank's help and Mr. Spinosa's help and TD Bank, in general, could your Ponzi scheme have survived? ALL PRESENT: several times. MR. SCHERER: answered? MR. RABIN: MR. SCHERER: Several times. Fine. It's been asked and Object, asked and answered It couldn't have. MR. RABIN: MR. SCHERER: Move to strike. Well, you don't need to All you need to do is object move to strike. to form. MR. RABIN: MR. SCHERER: I did it anyway. That's all you have got to Gibraltar Bank as an atypical banking relationship? That would one word, "atypical." United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1185 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q Yes. And did they provide you with special I'm talking about the people at accommodations? Gibraltar. A Q Yes, sir. Let me talk to you about your testimony the other day that I should have followed up on and didn't, concerning A.J. Discala of Clockwork and my clients and your dinner with him in Bova where you guys were excited and even toasted some drink to some event. Do you recall that testimony? Yes, sir. Would you tell me about that a little bit, and then I'll ask you some follow-up questions. A with me? Q Yes. It was before the Razorback investment Can you give me the time frame again? Who was while Clockwork was doing its due diligence, and that would be sometime in, probably, September or maybe the summer, June, July, August, September, somewhere in that line, when they were doing their due diligence about investing in your fund. Is that -- I can't get more precise than that because it's your memory. A Yes. I recall -- the problem is that I recall I having dinner with them on several occasions there. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1186 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A also recall a time when we were sitting off to the side tables, closer to the bar, where, actually, Thane Ritchie was there and some of the other guys, and we were sitting there having drinks, toasting. Q What I'm interested in is A.J.'s statements to you about his due diligence and investigation of the performance of the New York hedge funds and their past performance with your investment scene. A Okay. MS. TRENCH: Object to form. I remember what you're talking about now. MR. SCHERER: I have an objection there. If it's from Susan, it's probably pretty good and I'll change the question. What is it? MS. TRENCH: It's testifying. It's asking him to speculate, talking about what other people knew. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Well, okay. I'm asking you if you were present when A.J., when there were discussions concerning his diligence. A Q Yes, I was. And tell -- and by the way, did you have similar conversations with either Mr. Simony or United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1187 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr. Nordlicht from the funds about -A Q Yes, sir. -- their positive references to Mr. Discala and the Clockwork people? A Yes, sir. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q A Tell us about those discussion, please. You want me to start with the A.J. Object to form. discussions? Q Yeah. Start with A.J., and then we will go onto the others. A At the -- at one of the dinners we were having, we were toasting the fact that their due diligence people, whoever was making the call -- I don't know who it was, someone on behalf of the Clockwork, Von Allmen, that whole group -- had spoke to the folks in New York at the New York hedge funds, and they had given us a sterling recommendation, both with regard to consistency of payment and the type of investment strategy we were representing. There were also conversations prior to that where I spoke to Jack Simony and I spoke once or twice to Mr. Nordlicht about the fact that they were looking forward to getting their money because they had done United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1188 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q what they were supposed to do in giving me a positive reference to our new investors. Q And that "new investors" would have been the Clockwork people? A Q Yes, sir, among them, yes. And did you have any conversations with Simony or Nordlicht about A.J., in particular, or anybody else in my client group -A Q A Q A I did. -- that you recall? I did. All right. And tell us about that, please. I remember -- the conversation with Discala sticks out because he was at one point in time married to Meadow Soprano -- I forget her name. real name? Q A Jamie Sigler. Right. Jamie Sigler. What is her So somehow it had come up in the conversation with the hedge funds, because Simony -- I don't remember whether Nordlicht asked me, but Simony was asking me, he said, I didn't know he was married to her. why it sticks out. Other than that, that's all I can tell you. Do you think that conversation occurred prior So that's United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1189 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A to the time of the Razorback investment in your investment -- settlement investment scheme? A I was told both by Doug Von Allmen and by A.J. Discala, specifically, that without the blessing of our large -- largest investors, they were not going to be able to invest. Q That was key. Who, in doing due Well, let me ask you this: diligence, would ever invest without the positive reference of a fund that was primarily funding the investment for 18 months? Wouldn't that be absolutely critical to any kind of diligence? MS. TRENCH: Yes. Object to form. Based on my experience in running a Ponzi scheme for four or five years, the only people that ever invested without doing that type of due diligence were people who were in the know about the fact that we were committing a fraud. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Do any of my clients, A.J. -- and A.J. Discala and Parrish or any of those other fellows have a -- how did you rephrase that -- how did you phrase that? they have an escort issue? to any of my clients? A Q No, sir. And you can't say the same thing about some of Did Did you ever provide escorts United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1190 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A A those fellows at Platinum, though, can you? MS. TRENCH: No. No, sir. Object to form. BY MR. SCHERER: Q As inducements to Simony, Nordlicht and Glass, did you provide them tickets to concerts, Super Bowl, BCS, political events, dinners, charter flights, the things that you have been talking about? A I did. ALL PRESENT: BY MR. SCHERER: Q A And escorts, same thing? Some them, yes, sir. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q And how often would you provide -- would they Objection. Object to form. partake in your rock-star lifestyle that you have been talking about here for a few days? MS. TRENCH: Same objection. I would say it was on a regular basis. Certainly whenever they were in Florida, they were; and whenever I traveled to New York, they were; and whenever we traveled together, they were. Q Okay. Did you do that to induce them into treating you more favorably, or why did you do that? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1191 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I did that because that is the way I took care of people that were involved -- I -- I don't really know how to put this. I mean, you do -- the guys at the hedge funds -- there's two methodologies of rewards. You were rewarding guys that were in on it; but at the hedge funds, I was really just trying to make them comfortable with me so they would invest. Q right? MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q A Like Simony? I believe -- here's the way you have got to I believe that Jack That is my Object to form. Well, and some of them were in on it, though, break this down, Mr. Scherer. Simony had some knowledge of the fraud. opinion. Okay. I do not know it for a fact. On the other side, Brian Jedwab, I believe had no knowledge -- thought about it, and had he found out, he would have shut us down in a second. As I said, he would have gone running down the hall, calling the police on the way. Simony would have done that. Q A And Nordlicht? That is based on my dealings with him. That's I don't think my opinion. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1192 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 knew. Q A A Q A knew. Q A Okay. Nordlicht? I believe at some point in time Nordlicht It's my opinion that he knew that there was a fraud in the works. Q right? MS. TRENCH: I don't -Like Simony? I believe -- here's the way you've got to I believe that Jack That is my Object to form. Well, and some of them were in on it, though, break this down, Mr. Scherer, okay. Simony had some knowledge of the fraud. opinion. Okay. I do not know it for a fact. On the other side, Brian Jedwab I believe had no knowledge, thought about it, and had he found out he would have shut us down in a second. As I said, he would have gone running down the hall calling the police on the way. I don't think Simony would have done that. And Nordlicht -That's based on my dealings with them. That's my opinion. Q A Okay. Nordlicht? I believe at some point in time Nordlicht It's my opinion that he knew that there was a United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1193 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Okay. for me. Okay. I know Ted Morse knowed. I don't know whether or not Simony or Nordlicht knew. It was my opinion that he knew and A Q A that? Yeah. And then I'm going to ask you about fraud in the works. Q Well, and then -- let's see -- why do you say what they got out of their actions thereafter. A Well, it's based on a conversation -MS. TRENCH: Object to form. -- that I had with him in my office. You have talked about that. That I went through. So, you know, listen, as you're going through this thing, there are people that you know are involved because they're involved. They're actually -- like Szafranski, bringing in investors to something he knows doesn't exist. David Boden, creating paperwork. people you know. Those are I want to clearly differentiate between that and my opinion. Then there are people that you think know. I know Mr. Spinosa knowed (sic) because he lied I know Harris knowed because he lied for me. looked the other way because they wanted to get their United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1194 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 form? MS. TRENCH: evidence. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Okay. Well, we -- that's all deposit It assumes facts not in money out. Q A Okay. They were making a lot of money and then they were almost making no money and they wanted to get all their money out. Q They had a hundred million dollars in it They had, in December, when approximately, in April. they started slow paying or ramping down the payment, they had about $180 million. that. A I would like you to assume I think that's pretty accurate. I believe that's accurate, sir. MS. TRENCH: Object to form. BY MR. SCHERER: Q And the positive references that Platinum and Centurion and their -- Simony, Nordlicht, Glass, provided -- and anybody else there, provided to our investors -- enabled your scheme to continue on through the end of October, correct? MS. TRENCH: MR. SCHERER: Object to form. What is wrong with the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1195 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A information, so that is in evidence or will be in evidence. I want you to assume that they had about $100 million outstanding in April. A I don't need to assume it. They did have approximately that amount of money. Q A Q Okay. Yes. And at the end of the crash, they got it all You remember that? back except about $18 million? A Yes, I believe -- my recollection is, is they were just $18 million shy. Q Okay. So they made about $80 million back for their fund and that -- between April and the end of October, correct? A Yes, sir. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q And what did they do to get that back other They did more than remain silent, Object to form. than remain silent? didn't they? A Yes. MS. TRENCH: Object to form. They looked the other way and they gave us a positive credit reference to our new investors. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1196 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A BY MR. SCHERER: Q All right. Now, did Nordlicht partake in the inducements also: Tickets, concerts, escorts, flights, charter flights, hotels, food, drink? A Not -MS. TRENCH: Object to form. Food and drink, yeah, but not so much. Nordlicht was more of a family guy. BY MR. SCHERER: Q A Q A Okay. Did his thing on the side. Simony and Glass more so? Yes. Very much Simony and, you know, Glass was a little squeamish about it from time to time but he got over it. Q Okay. How about how many -- how many -- what How many times? Multiple times? are we talking about? A Q A For a -- For both of those guys. Simony liked the escorts and Glass liked more to go to strip clubs and then get -Q A Serviced? Serviced. Extra special treatment at the strip clubs. reason. He felt secure in the strip clubs for some United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1197 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A business. BY MR. SCHERER: Q A there. Q Okay. And do you think that the requirement And monkey business meaning? We drank and we had women at our disposal A yes, sir. BY MR. SCHERER: Q But what did you do when you were there? He it? A Q A Q No. I always paid. Q And did he ever pay for it or did you pay for And where did you get the money to pay for it? Ponzi scheme. Now, you flew Glass to the islands, to the Bahamas in order to -- for him to do some due diligence and approve some settlements offshore because some other business was offshore, correct? MS. TRENCH: Object to the form. That is why I thought we were going there, didn't do any business, did he? MS. TRENCH: No. Object to the form. We did no real We did monkey business. to do business offshore was satisfied by the monkey business that you guys engaged in when you were in the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1198 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Bahamas? MS. TRENCH: No. Object to the form. One thing had nothing -- one thing had nothing to do with other. BY MR. SCHERER: Q The deals that you were actually -- or that he was actually looking at there were being really looked at back in New York, right? A Yes. Because when we got there, Mr. Scherer, He said, "What I said, "Okay, what do we have to do?" do you mean we have to do?" already been approved." on we'll get a call. He said, "Everything's Later Go downstairs and drink. I'll go upstairs and just type in that everything's -- that I've reviewed all the documents and it's been approved. We had no way to receive the documents. had no documents with us. and bathing suits. Q Okay. We had his laptop. We Wallets We were good to go. Let me talk to you about the bar grievance procedure. A Q Okay. You actually had a -- had the Platinum guys come in, and you used this contrivance that you had a Bar problem tying up your trust accounts, and therefore, you were slow paying them or no paying them because United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1199 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ostensibly the Bar had tied up your trust accounts, right? A Correct. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q And is there anything incorrect about that Object to form. predicate statement? A Q No, sir. Okay. And at one point you got somebody from your office on the phone who played like a lawyer for the Bar? A Q Yes, sir. Okay. A female at the office. And I guess -- what, did you use a speakerphone or something like that? A Q spectacle? A I don't remember, Mr. Scherer. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Simony? A Okay. Who was in the office to -- was it Object to form. Yes. And who was in the office to witness this Was he there; do you recall? I really don't recall. I recall there being somebody there from the hedge funds and someone on the call also that had been conferenced in. But I don't United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1200 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recall who was there. Q So you -- I mean, you put on this charade about the Bar grievance to justify withholding money that was due to the funds, correct? A Yes. I -- it was twofold. I wanted to pressure them into potentially settling -- not settling -- I wanted to pressure them into potentially funding more cases, and I needed to have a -- at least semi viable reason why I was not paying them. Q The Bar grievance ruse was for the funds, not I mean, were there any other investors anybody else? that were -- that you used this Bar -- this fictional Bar problem with? A No. It was utilized for the purpose of controlling the New York hedge funds. Q Did you have a concern that they would pick up the telephone and call the Florida Bar? A Q A Terrified. They didn't do that, though, obviously. Not to my knowledge. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Did the person that was on the phone acting Object to form on that one. like a Bar lawyer use a Bar lawyer's name? A Yes. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1201 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q the Bar? A office. Q So were you fearful that somebody from the Yeah. She actually ran the Fort Lauderdale Adrianna something? Adria Quintela. Adria Quintela. Who is actually a lawyer for fund would call Adria and say, is this true? A Q A Terrified. Didn't happen, though, did it? No, sir. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Now, when the funds did their due diligence in Object to form. December at Steve Rossi's office -A Q office? MS. TRENCH: Object to form. Yes. Yes. Doesn't Mr. Rossi have a relatively modest Extremely modest. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Were you concerned that whoever was doing the due diligence in talking to Mr. Rossi would look around the office and have a little bit of a problem believing that he could send you hundreds of cases a month? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A A When I arrived there, having never been there I was very concerned. I actually joked before, yes. around about it later but we made it through it. Q Well, yeah, you did. Were you concerned that Mr. Glass and Mr. Jedwab would do the Plaintiff/Defendant Index at Broward and Palm Beach and Dade County and find out that Mr. Rossi has only but a handful of cases? MS. TRENCH: Yes, sir. Object to form. BY MR. SCHERER: Q A Q That didn't happen either, though, did it? To my knowledge, no. Now, Mr. Herskowitz -- is that how you pronounce it? A It's either Herskovitz (phonetic) or Herskowitz (phonetic). Q A Q Okay. Yes. His office is modest as well, isn't it? Comparatively so, yes. Were you concerned that And same question. they would look around that office and say, how did this guy -- how can this guy send hundreds of cases worth hundreds of thousands of dollars? A Q Yes. And I don't know Doug Bates. What does his United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1203 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to. MR. SCHERER: Read the court order. that. office look like? A Q A Q Same. Modest. Same concern? Yes, sir. Did you have the same concern that they would run the Plaintiff/Defendant Index to see if those fellows had any cases? A Q I did, sir. Because you knew they didn't have very many cases, right? A Q A That's correct, sir. They have very modest practices? Yeah. If you ran Bates, you would know; you would find a bunch of personal injury cases and a lot of workers' comp cases. MR. SCHLESINGER: Mr. Scherer, there's one minute left in the plaintiff's time. MR. SCHERER: I'm going to take more than I'm going to finish. MR. SCHLESINGER: That wasn't stipulated I'm taking -- I'm going to finish this. I'll be done in a few minutes. BY MR. SCHERER: United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1204 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sir. Q A Do you think he was in on the fraud? I do. However, I have to qualify it. I never Q A Q Let me ask you about Mr. Levin. Okay. Was he a player as you've defined "player" in this deposition this week? A Mr. Levin I considered to be a player, yes, had direct conversations with George Levin about the fraud. for you. But there were -- let me break it down this way Okay. I knew he had the ability to monitor Frank and I had discussed that. Frank's emails. Q A tell you. Right. He would read Frank's emails. I'm sure you read them all. I don't need to It's clear that there's a fraud going on. Q A Q A Right. That's one. I agree. Two, there was with a key moment in time in '08, key moment, there's an email -- I think it was May of '08 -- where Frank Preve has called -- where Frank Preve has called TD Bank, and he has discussed the trust balance, okay, with Frank Spinosa. And Frank Spinosa, bobbles the ball and says we don't have as much in the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1205 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 trust account and then rushes and excuses himself and gets off the phone. Now, how do I know that happened? Because Mr. Preve confirmed all that in an email to Mr. Levin. I think the email title is "Idiots" and it's Frank writing to George Levin and he says, "I was -- are these people at Commerce Bank idiots? time. It was Commerce at the He's going through the -- what he did, that they're telling me about telephone calls he had with them. It's clear I've got Spinosa in my pocket because In the email he's saying -- I Frank's referencing him. tell him not to tell Scott something and he picks up the phone and tells Scott immediately, because Scott's telling me about the conversations he had with Spinosa. The second paragraph of the email is the key. In that particular paragraph, he says during the conversation, Spinosa tells him that Rothstein doesn't have that much money in the trust account. Then basically panics and hangs up and says, "I'll have to get back to you." Never gets back to him. When Preve tries to follow up with him to try to figure out how much money I have, he -- Frank, unfortunately -- and I had never seen these emails until I came back and in reviewing emails you see that Frank bobbled the ball again. He says, "I don't have access United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1206 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to customer balances. I got to wait until my girl gets back on Tuesday, something to that effect. Q A Frank Spinosa? Frank Spinosa. So at that moment, it's -- now looking at these emails, it's crystal clear to me what was going on because Preve had relayed this to me earlier on. Once, Preve and I were speaking -- you'll see emails back and forth where Preve is talking to me about what an idiot Spinosa is and I need to watch him. It's clear from that email and from the behavior that George, to my knowledge, knew what was going on. But George, the way he always did his The business -- okay, George and I became very close. way George did his business was Frank was his Chinese wall. Frank -- he used Frank to try to insulate him Go from liability, that is clear in everything he did. back to the classic motor cars thing; it's the exact same thing. It's the way he does his banking business. It's the, I don't know, someone else takes care of it. The exact same thing, by the way, if you look through the email traffic, happened with John Harris and Gibraltar, where Frank made a call over and said -- he was trying to get -Q Frank Preve? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1207 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Frank Preve was trying to get a line of credit And he said, with Gibraltar for the Banyon people. well -- and in the email he mentions, he says, "Well, you've got $21 million in the trust account." And now Harris follows the ball, okay, and says, uh, yeah, okay, something -- and you can tell by the email Frank knows the money is not there and he's writing -- and George is copied on the email. money is not there. You can see that they know the Okay. And the way John Harris recovers, you see, is he continues to attempt to put through Levin's Banyon's request for a line of credit. Preve keeps pushing him. Keeps pushing Spinosa and Levin -- excuse me, Spinosa and Harris to try to get these lines in place. But you can see from the emails that everyone knew that the trust account balances were not there. Q When you -MR. RABIN: moment. Mr. Scherer, just -- for a I want to put on the record, it's now five after ten. Although you say you don't care about whatever -MR. SCHERER: SPEAKER?: Let me finish. Let me just put this on the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1208 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 record, please. MR. SCHERER: MR. RABIN: Sure. There was an agreement I think Mr. Lichtman reached by all counsel. actually coordinated the agreement, that the plaintiffs would stop today at 10:00, because this was going to be a shortened day, and in order to be assured that we would get all of our time in that was guaranteed by the court order that you referred to, that you would stop by 10:00 so that we could start. It's now five past 10:00. violated the agreement. So I'm not sure if it's the court order that you're going by or ignoring the agreement that all the lawyers in this case reached, but I think you should be a man of your word and abide by the agreement that all the lawyers reached. MR. SCHERER: MR. RABIN: MR. SCHERER: minutes. MR. RABIN: MR. SCHERER: All right. Okay? And the court order I'm about finished, so -Okay. -- just give me a few more You've now United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1209 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it -MR. SCHERER: Let's go. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Do you recall receiving emails, correspondence We don't need a referee. gives me the right to take all morning if I want. MR. RABIN: The problem with that, of course, is that the court order didn't take into account -MR. SCHERER: MR. RABIN: Don't take -I understand the court didn't take into account the change of schedule. MR. SCHERER: Well, that change of schedule will be the same next Friday. MR. LICHTMAN: Rather than fight about from Mr. Levin late in the game, let's say as your Ponzi scheme was crumbling in the fall of 2009, that made you think that he still felt there was money in -- actual money in trust accounts? A Q I do. And actual defendant's money in trust accounts that were held up by the Bar? A lines. Yes. I recall receiving something along those United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1210 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Did that make you concerned that maybe this guy doesn't know? A thing. I couldn't decide because it was like a civil There were things that were discussed that made me think one way and then I would receive something like that that would make me think the other way. Q When you got back from the Ponzi scheme, initially you weren't sure, were you? A sit here. No. No, I wasn't. I'm still not sure as I I mean, looking back on reading emails I have tremendous hindsight and there were clearly things that say this man knows that something was wrong or at the very least just wants to look the other way. But I -It's to this day I have no way of knowing for certain. my opinion. Q Do you recall a fatherly email that he wrote you late in October where he said, Take a deep breath -something. Take a deep breath. Don't get yourself into this situation where you promise plaintiffs you'll settle the case until we get the money in-house. A Q Yes. And then you've got the defendants' money in-house, and we'll be all right? A Q Yes, sir. You remember that? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1211 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q I do. Well, when you got that, did you think, well, he still thinks this Ponzi scheme is real? A Q To some extent, sure. Defendants' money in-house locked up, plaintiffs' money coming in, plaintiffs' money promised, investor money coming in -A Q Yes. -- he said, Scott, don't promise the plaintiffs anymore until you get the investor money in-hand? A Q A Q Sure. Remember that? Sure. Absolutely. And we've got all that defendants' money, it's already in there, we can wait and get the periodic payments? A Q A Q Yes, sir. I mean, he wrote you that in October? Yes, sir. Did you think when he wrote you that, that he was just covering up for the record or that he actually believed it? A At that point in time I really didn't know one way or the other. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1212 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he was. You know, just -- I guess the emails that I saw him writing me said he wasn't aware. was aware, it was to a limited extent. The email traffic between him and Mr. Preve and the conversations Preve is telling me he's having, speak to the other side of the coin, that he was aware. So it's very difficult for me to tell. Q Well, and aren't there some emails between you At least if he tell. Again, the problem always was that I couldn't He kept himself so isolated for everything I couldn't tell. For all I knew, he wasn't; and for all I knew, and Preve that "we're going to keep the old man in the dark" and Preve said he's going back to the islands and, I'm going to put my feet up on his desk and think about how to screw him and -- remember that -A Q A Q A Q Yes. -- email? Yes, sir. And that was late in the game? It was, sir. I mean, that email would make you think that maybe Mr. Levin isn't -- didn't know. MS. TRENCH: Objection. Form. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1213 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes, but I have to tell you, Mr. Scherer, as I sit here today, what I'm telling you is merely my opinion. Okay. I do not know for certain whether or I not Mr. Levin knew there was a Ponzi scheme going on. just do not know. The emails and all the evidence that's floating around in my brain over the last couple of years is contradictory. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Let me show you this -- I'm going to -- I've got one more email and I'll be done in just a minute, fellows. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Your testimony about the other tentacles to your fraud operation, that involved more than just the confidential settlements? fraud? A Q A Q Correct. But your fraud had other branches? Correct. You had the -- as you discussed, Ron Picou and That was one branch of your his grout company that you were using to get money and give him money fraudulently -- or Ponzi scheme money and putting his money into the Ponzi scheme? A He wasn't involved in the Ponzi scheme but I was using funds from him to fund the Ponzi scheme, while United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1214 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 at the same time laundering money for him for the things he needed money for and to help him hide money from his -- at that point in time soon-to-be ex-wife. Q And -- well, you know, I thought in the beginning you might have said that the Ponzi was bigger than just the settlement because all of the money came in from all of these multi-faceted frauds -A Q I did say that. -- and then was paid out on a multi -- out of Ponzi money or fraudulent money, without regard to who was owed what on the basis of some contract or illegal contract or agreement? A Yes. Let me make sure you understand that I believe -- actually I'm confident as I sit here today that every one of the tentacles of the criminal enterprise that I was running, all flowed back in some way to benefit the Ponzi. Whether it was power -- in Whether any phase, judiciary, law enforcement, banking. it was laundering money for organized crime and all the myriad of things that occurred in between. They were all involved at some way ultimately funding or assisting the Ponzi scheme. Q early on? Was Mel and Barry Lifshitz involved with you United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1215 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Mel Taylor? No, no, Mel -- is it -- is there a Mel Mely? Lifshitz also. A Taylor -Q A Okay. You're getting them -- Mely -- there's Mel Or Thaler, who's Barry Lipsitz -- excuse me, Barry Lipsitz's -Q A Lipsitz's. -- partner in Flashdancers in New York and in some other businesses. Q A Okay. Then there's Menachem, Mely, Lifshitz, who is -- who is an investor through Szafranski. Q A Q Okay. All right. That's okay. That wasn't easy. All right. So those are -- the Barry Lipsitz Barry and Mel was not a settlement Ponzi investor? Taylor, the Flashdance guys, did they -A To my knowledge, Mel wasn't involved in it. Mel was involved in some kind of money laundering thing with Barry to get cash to build a home in Fort Lauderdale -- actually to redo a home in Fort Lauderdale. Barry was an investor, just like Tanachio, in United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1216 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the -- just the promissory notes, like Morse. Q Right. The -- Mely or Menachem was in the structured settlement -A The full-blown deals, full-blown -- you know, Through Szafranski. Is that Emess? everything. Q A Q That would be the Emess Group? The Emess Group, yes. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Now, did the Tanachio frauds, as you have discussed, and Ronnie Picou's fraud that you discussed and the Peters Silversea, was that also during the time of the Ponzi -- the settlement Ponzi business? A Q Yes. Let me show you some emails. I'm going to do it as a composite. MR. RABIN: Mr. Scherer. For the record, it's 10:15, You have now said you would be wrapping up since about five after when you made the first -MR. SCHERER: MR. RABIN: Pretty soon. I understand but pretty soon -- you're violating the order the lawyers, the agreements of the lawyers -MR. SCHERER: take all next week. Look, you're not going to You'll have plenty of United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1217 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 time. (Multiple conversation.) MR. SCHERER: Well, I'm sure I won't. So week. MR. RABIN: You're cutting into that me. time. Just hold your horses. MR. RABIN: Unfortunately, it's not just There's a lot of lawyers that want to take time, so -MR. SCHERER: You'll have time all next I'm going to do this right now because I may not get to see this man again. MR. KOPAS: All right. Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit 171. First thing is an email that was Exhibit 28 to Nordlicht's deposition. Bates Stamp FP ends in 167641/1; another email TCL 60572; another email begins FP -- Bates number FP 156116/1; another email, FP Bates-labeled ends 167761/1. (Thereupon, the documents were marked as Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit No. 171 for Identification?) A Thank you, sir. BY MR. SCHERER: Q Look at that first email. It says, "Jack United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1218 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q asked you to send something to the other two funds to keep them quiet." May 6th. You see that? Yes, sir. And was this part of your DOMAD, doctrine of mutually -- mutually assured destruction? A Q Yes, sir. And -MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Okay. Why were you sending something to the Object to form. other funds to keep them quiet? A Because Preve and Mr. Simony and I had a concern that if I didn't get money over to all the various parts of the New York hedge funds, that one of them might explode and blow the whistle on us. Q Okay. I would like you to look at that next A couple of weeks before you go to email, October 15th. Morocco you met with Simony. You see that? October 15th email. A Q I see that. And when we took his deposition, he couldn't Take a look at that email, remember anything you discussed at that late, late United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1219 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not. Q A Q Did you send the wire? I don't recall one way or the other. Okay. And then look at the March 20th, '09, A Q A A meeting in October, but in the email, you see where it says "please email me the docs we spoke about"? MS. TRENCH: Yes. Object to form. BY MR. SCHERER: Q You see that? And then he also says, "Please let me know wire sent and I will shred." You see that? Yes. Do you remember what that was all about? I don't remember what the documents were but I had given him a check to hold for an amount that I was promising to send them. And if I was going to send -- if I sent the wire, he was going to shred the check. Q A Do you know whether -He wanted to know whether to deposit it or email, please. A Q Yes, sir. And what was the -- you see the reference to Murray's trust there -- United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1220 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Yes. -- on that email? Yes. Do you know what Murray's trust referred to? I do not. You know who the Murray is, right? Yes. It's Murray Huberfeld. Form. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q And you know that Murray's had some kind of a trust that was owning the Regent's or part of the Regent's deal? A I don't know if that's what was associated. I'm not familiar with that backroom information. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q The Regent's money came into you, 11 million, Objection to form. paid out 22 million. Do you remember that? I do. That money came in in January of '09. Was that money important in maintaining and continuing the Ponzi scheme at that period of time, January '09? A Absolutely it was, sir. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1221 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Without that $11 million infusion, do you know Form. what would have happened? A Yeah. I believe if you look at the finances, financial records and ledgers at the time, the Ponzi would have exploded and I wouldn't have been able to make payments to other investors. Q Okay. Would you look at that last email, May 6th, and then these guys can have the floor? A Q Yes, sir. And these amounts that you are discussing in this email, you can see that with -- this was to Mr. Nordlicht, right? A Q Yes, sir. Did you fund these amounts of money in order to keep the hedge funds quiet? A All of the money that I sent them was to keep the hedge funds quite, yes, sir. MS. TRENCH: BY MR. SCHERER: Q Why did you send them the money that you Object to form. referenced in that email on May 6th, '09? A I didn't want anyone exploding and blowing the whistle and blowing up the Ponzi scheme. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1222 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. LICHTMAN: Q correct? A Q No, sir. You had zero ability to play any role in Scott, you weren't on the Federal JNC, MR. SCHERER: further questions. MR. LICHTMAN: Sam, while they're Okay. Thank you. No switching tables, I'm going to ask five very quick questions that make clear the Magistrate Seltzer had no complicity in the fraud. So do that, and by the time you get here, I'll be done. MR. RABIN: I think that's clear. I'm going to ask the MR. LICHTMAN: questions. FURTHER EXAMINATION assisting Magistrate Seltzer in reaching aspirations of becoming a federal judge; is that correct? THE REPORTER: Hold on a second. I'm having trouble hearing you with all the shuffling. way. BY MR. LICHTMAN: Q You had zero ability to play any role in Maybe you want to come over this United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1223 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 assisting Magistrate Seltzer in becoming a federal judge, correct? A question. I really don't know the answer to that I don't know how deep my influence in Washington ran, but I can tell you that Judge Seltzer wasn't expecting anything illegal from me. Q In 2008 and 2009, there was a democratic president, correct? A Q Yes. Okay. When you went in to see Magistrate Seltzer with Ted Morse, you were playing Judge Seltzer that day, correct? A Q A Q I -You were manipulating Judge Seltzer? I was manipulating Judge Seltzer, yes. And Judge Seltzer had no idea he was being manipulated, correct? A Q Absolutely. He had no idea. Would you agree that your knowledge of Magistrate Seltzer is that he's a judge of the highest character and integrity? A Q Say that again. I'm sorry. Would you agree that Magistrate Seltzer, from your knowledge of him, is a judge of the highest character and integrity? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1224 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. RABIN: Q A Q All right. Good morning, Mr. Rothstein. you. THE WITNESS: MR. RABIN: break. (Thereupon, a recess was taken.) DIRECT EXAMINATION I think you're wrong. We have to take a ten-minute A Q Absolutely. So no one should draw the slightest inference by his use of the name in this thing with Ted Morse, that he knew of or participated in any wrongdoing, right? A Judge Seltzer knew nothing about anything that was going on -Q A All right. -- and I took advantage of him, yes. And I'm not sure that a democrat was in office when you're saying that, just so we're clear. Q A 2008? Oh, 2009. Yeah, 2009. MR. LICHTMAN: Okay. All right. Thank Good morning, Mr. Rabin. All right. You and I, although you know my name and we spoke briefly at the beginning of or during United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1225 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this deposition, we never met before, correct? A Q A Q lifestyle? A Q No, sir. Okay. First of all I want to dispel this myth Not to my knowledge, no, sir. You have never represented me in any matters? No, sir. I have not participated in your rock-star that seems to have been created that you wouldn't be testifying without Mr. Nurik here. You understand, first of all, that you're here pursuant to court order, don't you? A Q A Yes, sir. And a subpoena? I've never seen a subpoena, but I know the judge ordered me to be here, yes, sir. Q And you know that this is -- also, that the government expects you to cooperate in any and all proceedings that you're required to be at, right? A Q Yes, sir. Okay. So you're not saying that you would You're not saying that you would risk your Rule 35? violate a court order and be held in contempt by refusing to go testify if Mark Nurik weren't sitting next to you, are you? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1226 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A I believe that I have a right to have counsel at all times that I'm testifying regarding any of these matters, so I don't believe a judge would order me to be here without counsel. So I can't answer your question. You're asking me to guess about something that is not going to happen. Q don't you? A Q Yes, sir. Take a look, when you get back, do one of your All right. Well, you have access to Lexis, searches on your right to counsel post-sentencing; you may find that you don't have a right to counsel. let's go on from there. I want to ask you some questions about your conditions of confinement; and in asking you these questions, I want to make it clear from the beginning, so there is no objections from the government and marshals, I do not want to know anything about your location. Do you understand that? I do. I have noticed that you come to court every But day in street clothes and new outfits every day; is that correct? A That's not correct. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1227 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on. Q A Q Okay. Yes. Okay. And when you leave here, do you change Well, fresh shirts? into prison garb? MR. LAVECCHIO: MR. RABIN: prison garb? MR. LAVECCHIO: BY MR. RABIN: Q Lexis? A Q access? A There's actually a time frame that you can go Yes, sir. Okay. And I assume that that's unlimited All right. You indicated you have access to Yes, sir. Objection, privilege. As to whether he changes into I can do research for a certain number of time and So then it shuts me off so someone else can use it. it's not unlimited, but I have access. have our prison library. Q All right. It's the way we It's instead of books. And is there any restrictions on the types of searches that you can do on Lexis? A I don't believe so, but I don't know. I never had it stop me from searching; but then again, I was only searching me. Q In addition, have you -- do you also have a United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1228 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 television? MR. LAVECCHIO: BY MR. RABIN: Q I mean, it's a simple question: You either You can answer. have a television or you don't. A Q Yes. Okay. MR. NURIK: Let the record reflect that the time that he spent to pause was not for any other reason than to determine whether or not the government was going to interpose a privilege objection. MS. TRENCH: trouble hearing. MR. NURIK: The time he spent to pause is I'm sorry. I'm having for no other reason than for him to determine whether or not the government was going to interpose a privilege objection. BY MR. RABIN: Q equipment? A Q Yes. Okay. And I notice that you seem to have lost Do you also have access to some exercise some weight, right? A Yes. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1229 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q Okay. About how many pounds have you lost? Thirty-five. Okay. You've cut your hair, and you have grown a little facial hair, correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Other than that, your appearance has been the same? A Q Yes, sir. Okay. Now, the lawyers that have questioned you earlier in this week, you met with Mr. Lichtman, who you call "Chuck," for approximately three days, you said, much earlier in the year, I guess? A Yeah. I spent two or three days with Mark, prepping, and Mr. Nurik, prepping; and then I met with Mr. Lichtman and his people for three days. Q Okay. And then since that time, have you met with him additional times? A Q A Q No, sir. Okay. So a total of three days? Yes, sir. And before the deposition, how many times did you have the opportunity to meet with Mr. Scherer or anybody that works with him? A The very first time that I spoke with I Mr. Scherer was when he started questioning me here. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1230 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 haven't spoken with him or met with him. Q But you did speak with him through Mr. Nurik, who you spoke to and authorized Mr. Nurik to speak with Mr. Scherer on your behalf, correct? A Q It's too many questions in one question. Fair enough. Let me break it down. You did authorize Mr. Nurik to speak to Mr. Scherer on your behalf, correct? A Q Yes, I did. Okay. And there was essentially a dialogue that was going on where Mr. Scherer would want to know things, and those things were, essentially, asked of you by Mr. Nurik and then answered back to Mr. Scherer by Mr. Nurik, correct? A No, sir. To the best of my recollection that is exactly not the way it was occurring. Q A Well, tell us how it occurred then. As part and parcel of my review of things that are part of my cooperation, I would provide information to Mr. Nurik and I gave him authorization that, as he saw fit, he could share it with Mr. Scherer. Q Okay. Let's talk -- that brings us right into You said earlier that you what you were reviewing. reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents, correct? A I have never stopped to count them, but I have United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1231 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 did. Q A Have you -After having reviewed so many documents, I Certain ones stick out in been literally reviewing documents since the day I set foot back on US soil. Q And the documents that you have reviewed include emails from you, correct? A Q Yes. And so that gives you benefit of refreshing your recollection as to certain events, right? A Q Yes. And the documents you have reviewed include emails that you weren't even a party to, correct? A Q Correct. And that gives you the benefit of not only refreshing your recollection of events, but learning about what other people were saying and doing, correct? A Q Sure. Okay. And did you ever review the Coquina complaint that was filed in one of the cases that revolves around you? A I don't recall one way or the other whether I don't remember specifically. my mind. Q That one is not sicking out. Have you reviewed any depositions or trial United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1232 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 transcripts as part of the documents you were reviewing? A Q A Q A Q Depositions? Depositions or trial transcripts. No trial transcripts. Okay. Deposition transcripts, yes. Okay. Approximately, how many deposition transcripts have you had the opportunity to review? A Q Morocco. I don't recall. Okay. Let's talk about before you left for Would it be fair to say that you lied and deceived everyone you knew? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q At least to some extent, yeah, sure, I did. You lied to your law partners? Yes, sir. You lied to investors? Yes, sir. You lied to your friends? Yes, sir. You lied to your family members? I did. You lied to professionals that you employed, including bankers? A Q The ones that weren't involved, yes, sir. Well, you -- you didn't tell any banker what United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1233 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you were doing, did you? A Q Well, you're assuming that they asked me. Well, I am asking you, did you tell any banker what you were doing? A To a limited extent, to the extent that they needed to know, yes; and otherwise, no. Q Otherwise you kept them in the dark about what you were doing, correct? A I didn't tell them anything that I didn't think they needed to know in order to fulfill their obligations to me. Q Accountants, same thing, you didn't tell them what you were doing? A Q A I told one accountant a lot; everything, no. And as part of your lies -And I also told one banker a lot, also, and a few lies, but a lot of -- a lot of detailed information. Q As part of your lies, you used the court -- essentially incorporated the court in your lies and in your deception, correct? A Q I did. All levels of federal court, starting at the magistrate level, district court level, into the circuit court level, right? A I did. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1234 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 day. Q Q Okay. And not only forging court orders but having people pretend to be judges? A Q Yes. And even incorporating Judge Seltzer, as -- he was unaware, but incorporating him into your scheme, so actually visiting him and incorporating him into your scheme? A Q A Q Yes, sir. And you did all this for one purpose, right? Multiple purposes. Well, the one singular purpose, though, was to make money, right? A Q Multiple purposes. Did you use charities in a way to give yourself the air of legitimacy? A Q No. You never used charities to give yourself legitimacy? A I -I understand that, but you understand I can I discussed this in my testimony the other ask you questions about your testimony, don't you? A Q Yes. So I am asking you, did you use the charities in order to give yourself legitimacy? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1235 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them. Yes, I deceived charities; and yes, it absolutely added to the air of legitimacy. Q You used the political process in order to A It turns out that it did give me legitimacy, but this is one of those times that I'm going to differ with you on it, okay. It was not my intention. With a lot of things that's I spent money on and a lot of things that I did, I intended to create a specific air around me. When I was giving money to the charities, like Joe DiMaggio Children's Hospital, I was actually trying to help the children there -- with stolen money, but I was trying to help them. Q Well, certainly you deceived the charities by not letting them know it was stolen money; and more importantly, it did have the effect of giving the air of legitimacy, correct? A That's two questions. Let me answer both of further your scheme, correct? A Q That I absolutely did, yes, sir. And there were times when you either falsely exculpated people, didn't you? A I falsely exculpated people? Yes, I tried to save a bunch of my co-conspirators from jail, I did. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1236 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q You falsely created the persona that you were a successful lawyer when you were not, correct? A Q That's correct. You pretended to have a successful law firm, when you didn't? A Q correct? A Q A Q That's correct. And a legitimate investor? That's correct. And, in fact, you really were, to quote you -That's correct. You pretended to be a legitimate lawyer, let me show you an exhibit... (Thereupon, the document was marked as Defendant's Exhibit No. 172 for Identification.) MR. RABIN: I am showing what is marked as Plaintiff's -- or Defendant's Exhibit -- we are going in order, 172. It's an email, Scott Rothstein, October 31st, 2009, to George Levin? THE WITNESS: can't see. MR. RABIN: Take your time. What page is that Give me one second. I UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: email? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1237 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you? MR. RABIN: Mr. Rothstein -- it's from Scott Rothstein to George Levin dated October 31, 2009, at 3:33. BY MR. RABIN: Q A Why don't you read it out loud, Mr. Rothstein. Sure. It's from me to George, subject, me: try to bail me out of this. Frank did nothing wrong. the thief. die. Save yourself. Do not You and I am I did. I am the liar. I am the scum bag. I either go to jail or Why should I put my family through watching me go Love forever, Scott. So, the way you describe yourself was as a to jail. Q scum bag, correct? A Q I absolutely was. Okay. Now, let's move forward to your -- let's move forward to your sentencing. At your sentencing, you -- you made some promises, didn't you? A Q I believe I did, yes, sir. You promised to help people recover money, your investors recover money? A Q Innocent investors, yes, sir. Okay. You pledged to help Mr. Scherer, didn't United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1238 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I -- I don't -- I haven't seen the transcript from it, but if you're saying I did, if you can show me something where I said that; but Mr. Scherer, since I now know him to be representing a group of innocent investors, if I didn't pledge to do that, I would have, absolutely. Q Do you remember Mr. Nurik at your sentencing hearing, talking about, pointing out the fact that Mr. Scherer was in the audience and that he was here and that was somewhat remarkable because he was one of your major protagonists prior to that? A behalf? Q A So you're saying Mr. Nurik said it on my That, I believe, is correct, yes. Okay. Well. Through -- Hang on. Through Mr. Nurik, I did pledge to help certain people, yes. Q And, in fact, Mr. Scherer even was benevolent enough to write a letter on your behalf to the sentencing judge? A Q Yes, he was very kind in doing that. And you previously -- your relationship with Mr. Scherer is, in fact, he was your client once, wasn't he? A He was a client of the law firm at some point United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1239 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q in time. Q A Did you represent him? I don't remember whether it was me, specifically me, in conjunction with other lawyers. If you have a document that you can show me, it may refresh my recollection. Q And, now, in helping your legitimate investors, as you put it, and your former client, Bill Scherer, have you identified who the deepest pocket is in all this litigation? A Q A No, sir. Yeah, well, you know that, don't you? I could tell you who I think the deepest pockets are. Q A Q Who do you think it is? TD Bank. Oh, okay. Now let's talk about your cooperation. I wasn't here yesterday in the afternoon for that, but I understand that the subject of a Rule 35 came up, and I would like to pursue that a little bit. You understand what a Rule 35 is, correct? I do, sir. You understand that there is only one person or group of people that can file that motion on your behalf, correct? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1240 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A I do, sir. And Mark Nurik can't file that motion for you? Right. The only person that can file it is the government. Q And you understand that the government -- in order for the government to file that motion, first of all, if they file it, and they, of course, will never promise you that they will file it, right? A Q They have never promised me. They won't promise you; they will never make that promise, correct? A I don't know what they'll do. They have not promised me. the future. Q I don't know what they are going to do in So, but in order for the government to consider filing that motion, they have to be convinced that your testimony is complete and truthful, correct? A Q A Q Yes. And you understand -No truth, no Rule 35. And you understand that there are components of the cooperation that involve you helping them to recover money, correct? A To the extent that they would be forfeiting people's property, as I understand the United States United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1241 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 government, yes, to that extent, yes. is all the civil lawyers. government. Q You also understand you would have to testify This other stuff It has nothing to do with the in any court proceedings in which you could be a potential witness? A Q Yes, sir. And as often -- as often as needed, you would have to testify against as many people as they wanted you to, where you had -- where you had information? A My understanding, yes, on the criminal side I've got to testify every time they want me to, yes. Q And you also you understand that if you do additional things, that that is an added arrow in your quiver of cooperation? Like working undercover, that is something that is looked upon as favorable, correct? A I am assuming that it's looked upon as favorable if they asked me to work undercover, yes, sir. Q And likewise, if you were to put your life in danger, that would also be a factor that would be considered, right? A Q Yes, sir. And all of these -- all of these combined together -- in the event the government files a Rule 35, all of these combined together to give you the potential United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1242 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for a sentence reduction, right? A Q Yes, sir. Okay. Now, we already know that you essentially lied in every aspects of your life in order to get money; but of course, you would never lie in order to get a Rule 35, right? A Q A No, sir, I absolutely would not. And -If I lie and get caught lying, even an little bit, I will die in prison. Q Well, that's really the key, isn't it? You could really lie, as long as you didn't get caught, right? A Apparently you don't know Mr. LaVecchio and I wouldn't even venture an attempt. I his co-AUSA's. did not come back from a non-extradition country, where I was sitting with more money than I would spend in ten lifetimes, okay, to come back here and lie again. was not the purpose. Q That's a lie right there because, in fact, you You That only had how much money, 15 million, 16 million? spent 200 million in the two years of your Ponzi scheme, so you could easily spend that in much less than a lifetime, couldn't you? A Apparently you have never been in Morocco. I United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1243 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could have lived in Morocco with $15 million at least -at least 100 years, very well. Q A Did you -I could live as I was living in Fort I had priced it all out. Lauderdale for $10,000 a month with a full staff. Q Did you go to Morocco before you fled there to check it out? A Yeah. On and on top of that, by the way, I also had a watch collection with me and some jewelry that was worth several million dollars. Q the plane. MR. RABIN: Thank you, Mr. Nurik, for Well, we're going to get to what you took on pointing that out to him. BY MR. RABIN: Q Did you go to -- did you go to Morocco before you fled there in order to check it out? A Q No, sir. Okay. Now, you talked about drug use. What drugs did you use during the time that you were running around committing your crimes? A During the time of the Ponzi scheme, I -- the only drug I used was I smoked pot, and I took prescription medication. Q All right. So you're saying when you talked United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1244 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about drug use, I think as part of the rock-star lifestyle, in fact, as I think one of Mr. Scherer's PowerPoints, sex and drugs, the only drug you're talking about that you used was marijuana? A Mr. Scherer's PowerPoint regarding drug use as I smoked part of the rock-star lifestyle was incorrect. pot on the weekends with my wife. MR. LICHTMAN: Sam, if you don't mind. I know that the other court reporter just showed up and I don't know -MR. SCHLESINGER: They asked us to stop at one, so thank you, Chuck. BY MR. RABIN: Q All right. So you said the only drugs you Is she the only -- used were marijuana with your wife. you didn't -- that wasn't incorporated in the rock-star lifestyle, using drugs with any of your investors or co-conspirators? A No, actually, never. Actually, I had a lot of opportunities to because there was a lot of marijuana smoking going on in my office, but it wasn't something -- I prefer to drink vodka. Q A Actually in the office it was going on? In the office, in the garage, outside the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1245 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 office, I had some partners that couldn't come to work without smoking pot. Q A Okay. I also found out they were actually dealing I actually tried to put a stop to drugs in the office. that. Q A attention. That was one crime you wouldn't tolerated? No, no, it's not that. I didn't want to draw You don't want to have marijuana dealing from the middle of your law office because I was running a giant Ponzi scheme out of there. Q office? A Q Yeah. Sure. Did you ever have any of the escorts visit the You had had prostitutes in the office, but you wouldn't have pot? A You're missing the point. The police also were sleeping with my escorts. You, obviously -- listen, Broward Sheriff's Office, Fort Lauderdale Police Department weren't going to bother me, okay, I could have had all the escorts I wanted. Pot, not a great idea in the office, I don't know why, specifically, it bothered me; but it troubled me, probably because they were actually dealing the pot out of the office while I was in the middled of running United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1246 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a several-hundred-million-dollar Ponzi scheme. Q Okay. You -- you indicated that you had plans to kill yourself, I guess, on more than one occasion, right? A Q Twice. Twice, once with the .357 in the shower; is that one of them? A Q A Q A Q A Yes, sir. Okay. Was that gun loaded, by the way? Yes, sir. Was it registered? What do you mean "registered"? I mean -I had a concealed weapons permit. It was a legal weapon, yes. Q I'm asking where did you get the gun, is basically what I was asking. A You don't register weapons in Florida. You just purchase them, and they send off the information. I didn't have to register it. purchased it. Q Actually, thank you for that tip, but you can Okay? It was registered when I register guns in the State of Florida. A with you. I said you don't have to. I am not arguing I just did whatever was legally necessary to United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1247 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 purchase the weapons. Q And that was one of only two times you attempted to kill yourself, correct? A Actually, attempted to kill myself, yes, there was two -- two occasions. Q One was with putting the gun to your head in the shower while were you dressed in a suit, and the other one was pills in Morocco? A Q Pills and vodka, yes. Okay. And did you -- you didn't actually take any of the pills, though, right? A Q A Q A Q I had started to take the pills but -Now --- I didn't finish. What kind of pills were they? Xanax and blood pressure medication. That blood pressure medicine will get you. Have you ever been treated by a doctor for mental illness? A Q I have been treated for anxiety disorder. Has a doctor ever told you that you have you a mental illness? A Q disorder? No. Okay. So when you say mental -- what anxiety United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1248 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yeah. I was diagnosed with -- I think it's called -- it wasn't -- the word wasn't severe anxiety disorder. Q A Q A Q A It was some -- it was some -Acute anxiety? Acute. There we go. Acute anxiety disorder. And that was when you came back, right? Oh, no, sir. It was before? Let me finish, please. I was diagnosed with acute anxiety disorder I was -- going all the way back to the time I was in college. Q Okay. So back starting in college, you're talking, what year would that have been? A Q I was in college from 1980 to 1984. So -- and you have had, I guess, multiple doctors diagnose you -- diagnose you with this acute anxiety disorder? A Yeah, when I was the University of -- it was either when I was in the University of Florida or when I was in law school and I started to have very severe panic attacks. I was diagnosed, actually by -- my gastroenterologist diagnosed me. Q A Q Okay. What was his name? At the time, Steven Sackel. And who was the last doctor that treated you United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1249 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for your acute anxiety disorder? A Dr. Fernando Mata, a psychiatrist in Fort Lauderdale. Q Are you presently taking any medication for depression or anxiety? A I'm taking sertraline -- that's the generic I take a name; I don't know what the actual drug is. few milligrams of that every day for the anxiety disorder. Q Okay. Let's turn now -- Before I start that, we'll take a break. (Thereupon, at 10:54, a recess was had.) - United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1250 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ______________________________ Michele L. Savoy, RPR Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission No. EE 113173 Expires August 6, 2015 I, Michele L. Savoy, Shorthand Reporter do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did report the foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true record. Dated this 16th day of December, 2011. THE STATE OF FLORIDA, ) COUNTY OF BROWARD. ) C E R T I F I C A T E United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1251 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ___________________________________ Michele L. Savoy, RPR Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission No. EE 113173 Expires August 6, 2015 I, Michele L. Savoy, Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did report said deposition in stenotype; and that the foregoing pages, numbered from 1127 to , C E R T I F I C A T E THE STATE OF FLORIDA, ) COUNTY OF BROWARD. ) inclusive, are a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes of said deposition. I further certify that I am not an attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel or party connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means unless under the direct control and/or direction of the certifying reporter. Dated this 16th day of December, 2011. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 c0b92300-38eb-4196-9c0f-58abe77bb0aa Page 1252 A abide 1208:18 ability 1204:11 1222:17,25 able 1154:14,22 1175:8 1189:6 1221:7 absolutely 1152:25 1154:19 1155:2 1160:14 1179:6 1189:10 1211:14 1220:25 1223:18 1224:1 1235:18 1235:21 1237:15 1238:6 1242:7 accept 1168:6 accepting 1160:17 access 1175:8 1205:25 1226:7 1227:10,14,18 1228:20 accommodations 1183:21 1185:3 accompany 1180:3 accomplishments 1170:23 account 1181:15 1182:2 1205:1,18 1207:4,16 1209:5 1209:8 accountant 1233:14 accountants 1233:12 accounting 1179:13 accounts 1139:13 1183:24 1198:24 1199:1 1209:20 1209:22 accurate 1194:10 1194:11 acquaintance 1155:23,24 acting 1142:5 1200:23 action 1251:13,14 actions 1193:5 actual 1138:14 1141:24 1144:19 1159:14 1172:20 1180:16 1181:2 1209:19,22 1249:7 acute 1248:4,5,5,10 1248:16 1249:1 adam 1129:18 adams 1128:13 added 1235:18 1241:14 addition 1154:10 1227:25 additional 1229:17 1241:14 adjusted 1165:19 adria 1201:2,3,8 adrianna 1201:1 advantage 1138:11 1182:16,19,19 1183:2 1224:9 advising 1150:11 affect 1143:14 affirmed 1181:15 afternoon 1167:6 1239:18 age 1182:20 ago 1160:25 agree 1204:19 1223:19,23 agreement 1208:3 1208:5,13,15,18 1214:12 agreements 1216:23 ahead 1148:6 1166:9 1169:17 1169:20 1170:13 1172:14 air 1234:15 1235:5 1235:13,18 akerman 1130:4 al 1127:5,8 1128:9 1128:13 alex 1130:17,19 alibi 1171:17 allegedly 1139:22 1145:18 allmen 1155:18 1161:1,23 1164:15,16,18,25 1165:9 1183:8 1187:17 1189:3 allow 1171:21 allowing 1140:8 amazing 1178:6,8 amount 1153:4,5 1181:24,25 1182:2 1195:6 1219:13 amounts 1221:12 1221:16 amy 1128:13 announces 1169:25 answer 1134:12 1138:15 1161:12 1165:3,6,7,8 1223:3 1226:4 1228:2 1235:15 answered 1150:14 1158:11 1167:24 1168:5 1177:19 1184:5,8 1230:13 answering 1138:6 answers 1133:21 anxiety 1247:20,24 1248:2,4,5,10,17 1249:1,5,8 anybody 1142:4,18 1172:23 1188:7 1194:16 1200:11 1229:23 anymore 1152:1 1211:10 anyones 1138:14 anyway 1171:10 1184:16 apparently 1148:11 1174:3 1176:7 1242:14 1242:25 appeal 1145:20 appeals 1144:2 1149:9,10,18 appear 1135:2 appearance 1229:6 appearances 1129:1,4,7,11,15 1130:1,4,8,11,16 1130:20 1131:1,4 1131:7,12 appeared 1150:4 appears 1173:21 apply 1251:16 approaching 1143:23 approve 1197:8 approved 1198:12 1198:15 approximately 1157:11 1194:7 1195:6 1229:11 1232:7 april 1194:7 1195:4 1195:14 arbitrage 1129:19 arent 1212:13 arguing 1246:24 argument 1141:22 ari 1162:13 arrived 1148:24 1166:23 1169:24 1202:1 arrow 1241:14 asked 1136:16 1140:9 1141:3,8 1149:13 1150:13 1150:25 1151:1 1158:4,10 1160:13 1167:24 1168:4,9 1170:21 1177:17,18 1180:7,14,21 1184:5,7 1188:21 1218:1 1230:12 1233:2 1241:18 1244:11 asking 1140:4 1142:13 1158:6 1169:9 1186:17 1186:20 1188:21 1226:5,15 1233:3 1234:24 1246:16 1246:17 aspects 1242:4 aspirations 1222:18 assert 1152:6,8 asserting 1140:3 assisting 1214:22 1222:18 1223:1 associated 1220:13 assume 1194:9 1195:3,5 1227:13 assumes 1156:23 1194:22 assuming 1156:21 1233:2 1241:17 assured 1151:11 1208:8 1218:7 atlas 1130:3 attached 1159:24 attacks 1248:21 attempt 1138:10 1171:17 1207:11 1242:15 attempted 1247:3,4 attention 1245:9 attorney 1142:3 1251:11,12 attorneys 1141:2 atypical 1183:11 1183:11,13,14,15 1183:15,18 1184:24,25 audience 1238:9 auditors 1160:9 august 1146:3 1185:20 1250:13 1251:23 authenticity 1181:9 authorization 1167:4,5 1230:20 authorize 1230:7 authorized 1230:3 1250:6 1251:5 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 Page 1253 authorizing 1175:16 available 1138:2 ave 1130:2 avenue 1127:23 1130:5 avoided 1178:19 award 1164:11 aware 1144:24 1212:7,8,11 B b 1129:11 back 1134:12 1136:22 1143:16 1153:24 1154:10 1154:13,15 1156:16 1157:25 1157:25 1158:16 1158:16 1159:18 1164:22 1165:18 1165:23 1167:1 1169:2 1173:13 1176:1 1178:5,10 1195:10,13,19 1198:8 1205:20 1205:20,24 1206:2,8,18 1210:7,10 1212:15 1214:17 1226:10 1230:13 1231:2 1242:16 1242:18 1248:6 1248:11,12 backroom 1220:14 bad 1136:13,13 1163:9 bag 1237:10,14 bahamas 1197:7 1198:1 bail 1237:8 balance 1167:1 1168:17 1180:16 1204:24 balances 1181:15 1181:22 1206:1 1207:17 ball 1204:25 1205:25 1207:5 bank 1128:16,16 1128:19,21 1130:8 1139:13 1167:1,1 1168:13 1168:17 1172:25 1173:1 1174:4 1179:25 1180:16 1181:2,22 1183:11 1184:3 1184:24 1204:23 1205:7 1239:16 banker 1232:25 1233:3,16 bankers 1232:23 banking 1183:11 1184:24 1206:19 1214:19 bankruptcy 1135:14 banks 1180:15 1184:2 banyon 1207:2 banyons 1207:11 bar 1186:2 1198:19 1198:24 1199:1 1199:11 1200:3 1200:10,12,13,17 1200:24,24 1201:4 1209:23 barely 1171:23 1172:1 bargaining 1136:3 barry 1161:24 1162:3 1163:18 1181:13,20 1214:24 1215:7,8 1215:17,18,22,25 based 1153:3 1168:8 1189:13 1191:24 1192:21 1193:6 bashful 1145:3 basically 1205:19 1246:17 basis 1177:6 1190:20 1214:11 bates 1147:11,14 1159:6 1202:25 1203:13 1217:16 1217:18 bateslabeled 1217:19 bathing 1198:18 battista 1129:8 bcs 1190:7 beach 1202:7 bear 1175:20 becoming 1155:23 1222:19 1223:1 beginning 1136:18 1214:5 1224:25 1226:16 begins 1217:17 behalf 1129:19 1144:19 1152:7 1187:16 1230:4,8 1238:13,19 1239:25 behavior 1150:9 1206:12 bekkedam 1161:25 belief 1150:10 believe 1139:10 1140:23 1153:23 1156:12 1162:11 1165:1 1170:8,11 1171:12 1172:5 1178:1,12 1179:10 1180:4 1191:13,14,17 1192:2,10,11,14 1192:24 1194:11 1195:11 1214:15 1221:5 1226:1,3 1227:22 1237:20 1238:13 believed 1172:8 1211:23 believing 1201:24 bench 1170:17 benefit 1214:18 1231:6,12 benefited 1156:15 benevolent 1238:18 berger 1129:5 best 1155:22 1164:18 1167:12 1169:1 1230:15 big 1162:17 bigger 1214:5 bill 1239:8 billing 1131:9 biscayne 1129:21 1129:22 1131:2 bit 1133:10,14 1138:22 1145:23 1147:5 1152:13 1185:13 1201:24 1239:20 1242:10 black 1131:6 1145:24 1148:21 1149:9 blessing 1189:4 blood 1247:16,17 blow 1151:5 1157:7 1218:17 blowing 1152:4 1155:8,11 1156:14 1221:24 1221:25 blown 1152:21 blvd 1130:9 1131:2 1131:9 bobbled 1205:25 bobbles 1204:25 boden 1193:15 bolster 1178:24 bond 1153:20 1154:2,13,14 1178:7 bonds 1154:3 1179:14,16 books 1227:19 bore 1146:3 bother 1245:20 bothered 1245:23 bottom 1155:19,21 boulevard 1129:2,5 1129:16,22 bova 1143:21 1162:3 1185:9 bowl 1190:6 brain 1213:6 branch 1213:15 branches 1213:18 break 1191:14 1192:11 1204:10 1224:18 1230:6 1249:11 breath 1210:17,18 brian 1191:17 1192:14 brickell 1131:14 brief 1133:21 briefly 1141:10 1224:25 bring 1133:7 bringing 1193:13 brings 1230:22 broad 1166:20 brought 1162:19 broward 1127:2 1128:2 1129:2 1202:7 1245:19 1250:3 1251:2 build 1215:22 building 1127:17 bulldog 1143:12,15 bunch 1163:10 1203:14 1235:25 business 1143:12 1158:8 1164:9 1165:7,8 1168:25 1181:8 1197:9,15 1197:17,18,20,24 1197:25 1206:14 1206:15,19 1216:12 businesses 1215:11 businesslike 1165:3 businesstype 1165:10 bye 1171:2 C c 1129:10 1250:1,1 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 Page 1254 1251:1,1 cace 1128:4 call 1139:21,21 1159:23 1167:7 1176:14,17,19 1177:1,20 1182:10 1187:15 1198:13 1199:25 1200:17 1201:8 1206:23 1229:11 called 1138:23 1141:16 1150:24 1158:20 1176:22 1204:22,23 1248:2 calling 1142:14 1191:21 1192:17 calls 1143:2 1205:9 cant 1145:15 1146:13 1151:4 1151:25 1177:14 1179:22 1185:22 1189:25 1226:4 1236:22 1240:2 capital 1131:1 car 1164:8,9,12 1165:4 cards 1136:10 care 1138:4 1191:1 1206:20 1207:22 cared 1160:7 caretsky 1131:8 1173:7 1180:2,21 carol 1128:5 1149:12,19 1150:19 1152:3 1152:21 1153:5 1153:20 1154:12 1154:21 1156:3 1157:3 1167:7 1176:15,19 1177:2,22,24 1178:3,4,19 1179:15 carols 1149:11 cars 1206:18 case 1127:3 1128:4 1128:12 1137:9 1140:6,18 1144:19 1145:18 1145:19 1208:16 1210:20 cases 1200:8 1201:25 1202:8 1202:22 1203:7 1203:10,14,15 1231:17 casey 1131:3 cash 1158:15,16 1215:22 caught 1134:18 1242:9,12 cayman 1139:16,19 centurion 1129:20 1194:15 certain 1145:15 1174:7 1210:14 1213:3 1227:16 1231:7,23 1238:17 certainly 1140:17 1146:19 1152:12 1155:23 1157:3,5 1163:21 1172:23 1190:21 1235:11 certificate 1132:6 certification 1251:15 certify 1250:6 1251:5,10 certifying 1251:18 cetera 1179:15 cetificate 1132:6 chambers 1169:25 change 1186:14 1209:8,9 1227:3 changes 1227:6 channels 1134:15 character 1223:21 1223:25 charade 1200:2 charities 1234:14 1234:17,24 1235:7,11,17 charles 1129:7 charter 1190:7 1196:4 chase 1130:13 check 1219:13,15 1243:7,17 children 1235:9 childrens 1235:8 chinese 1206:15 chitchat 1135:4 chuck 1229:11 1244:12 cigar 1143:23 cigars 1143:21 cimo 1129:10 circuit 1127:1,1 1128:1,1 1144:2 1144:18,19 1145:16 1147:11 1148:1 1149:9 1233:23 civil 1210:3 1241:2 clarify 1163:14 clarity 1168:6,10 classic 1206:18 clausin 1130:13 clear 1140:14 1144:21 1150:3 1162:8 1178:25 1179:8 1180:8 1204:15 1205:10 1206:6,11,17 1222:5,9 1224:11 1226:16 clearly 1193:16 1210:11 client 1155:18 1188:8 1238:23 1238:25 1239:8 clients 1135:25 1136:10 1153:12 1157:10,19 1161:19 1164:5 1164:25 1185:8 1189:19,23 clockwork 1185:8 1185:18 1187:4 1187:16 1188:4 close 1173:17 1206:14 closer 1155:11,11 1186:2 clothes 1226:23 clubs 1196:21,24 1196:24 coach 1184:21 coausas 1242:15 cocalis 1129:14 cochran 1131:9 coconspirators 1235:25 1244:18 coin 1212:11 collection 1243:9 college 1248:11,12 1248:14 columbia 1130:12 combine 1160:2 combined 1241:23 1241:25 come 1141:9 1143:19 1153:7,9 1173:18,19 1188:19 1198:23 1222:22 1226:22 1242:16,18 1245:1 comes 1143:24,25 comfortable 1138:10 1169:16 1191:7 coming 1136:21 1211:6,7 comments 1164:7 1164:14,16,17 commerce 1205:7 1205:7 commission 1250:13 1251:23 committee 1130:4 committing 1157:6 1189:17 1243:21 community 1172:19 comp 1203:15 company 1128:16 1130:11,16 1213:21 comparatively 1202:19 compensatory 1139:8,8 complaint 1132:10 1167:21 1231:17 complete 1181:1 1240:17 completely 1154:21 1180:5 complicated 1164:20 complicity 1222:6 components 1240:21 composite 1147:12 1159:3,24 1167:14,20 1168:1 1172:12 1216:15 1217:14 1217:21 computer 1147:21 concealed 1246:14 concern 1150:22 1200:16 1203:3,5 1218:15 concerned 1201:22 1202:2,5,20 1210:1 concerning 1149:4 1181:22 1185:8 1186:22 concerts 1190:6 1196:3 concocted 1139:1 conditions 1226:15 conduct 1141:20 conducted 1145:10 conference 1176:24 1177:1 conferenced 1199:25 confident 1214:15 confidential United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 Page 1255 1163:13 1164:1 1213:15 confinement 1226:15 confirmed 1205:4 confusion 1144:4 1145:23,25 conjunction 1239:4 connected 1251:13 conrad 1129:12 consider 1240:16 considered 1204:5 1241:21 consistency 1187:20 consistent 1133:21 1172:18 contempt 1225:23 context 1166:10 continue 1155:8 1156:4 1194:17 continued 1132:2 1137:5 1152:23 1157:9 continues 1207:11 continuing 1133:6 1140:3,15 1156:9 1220:23 contract 1214:11 1214:12 contradictory 1213:7 contrivance 1198:23 control 1151:25,25 1251:17 controlling 1200:15 conversation 1178:22 1179:1 1188:13,19,25 1193:6 1205:17 1217:9 conversations 1164:17 1179:2 1186:25 1187:22 1188:6 1204:9 1205:14 1212:10 convinced 1240:16 cooperate 1225:18 cooperation 1230:19 1239:18 1240:22 1241:15 coordinated 1208:5 copied 1207:8 copies 1147:16 1174:11 copy 1177:21,22 coquina 1181:14 1181:21 1231:16 coral 1129:17 1130:18 correct 1137:23,24 1139:10,15 1146:5,8,22 1147:4 1149:25 1150:1 1153:10 1153:11,15 1154:6 1155:20 1156:17 1157:14 1159:15 1166:13 1166:16 1167:10 1168:18 1173:5 1175:4,10,13 1179:5,6 1180:5 1181:5,10,16,18 1194:18 1195:15 1197:9 1199:3 1200:4 1203:11 1213:17,19 1222:15,19 1223:2,8,12,17 1225:1 1226:24 1226:25 1229:4 1230:4,8,14,24 1231:4,10,11,14 1233:8,20 1235:14,20 1236:2,3,6,8,9,11 1237:14 1238:13 1239:21,25 1240:11,17,23 1241:16 1247:3 1251:8 corrections 1174:7 correspondence 1209:16 cost 1135:16 cotzen 1131:13 couldnt 1146:10 1184:11 1210:3 1212:1,3 1218:24 1242:24 1245:1 counsel 1135:13 1140:23 1147:16 1150:11 1161:7 1208:4 1226:1,4 1226:11,12 1251:11,12 counselling 1137:3 count 1230:25 country 1242:16 county 1127:2 1128:2 1202:7 1250:3 1251:2 couple 1149:12 1162:3 1173:6 1213:6 1218:19 course 1133:22 1156:19 1160:20 1171:23 1179:1 1181:2 1182:3 1209:4 1240:7 1242:5 court 1127:1 1128:1 1135:14 1135:14,16 1137:21 1138:9 1144:2,18,19 1145:16,18,20 1147:11 1149:9,9 1149:17 1153:4 1203:22 1208:9 1208:14,25 1209:4,7 1225:11 1225:23 1226:22 1233:18,19,22,23 1233:24 1234:1 1241:5 1244:9 courtroom 1127:18 cover 1144:15 1173:8 1180:2,8,9 1180:10,11,14,16 covered 1134:2 covering 1211:22 craig 1131:11 crash 1150:18 1153:22 1156:4 1156:17 1157:20 1158:1 1195:9 crazy 1151:22 create 1160:13 1235:5 created 1148:3,6,8 1160:20 1169:7 1225:9 1236:1 creating 1160:7 1193:15 credit 1177:14 1195:25 1207:1 1207:12 creek 1181:22 creeping 1149:19 crime 1214:20 1245:7 crimes 1243:21 criminal 1214:16 1241:11 critical 1189:11 crumbling 1209:18 crystal 1206:6 curse 1165:22 cusick 1131:3 customer 1206:1 customers 1183:25 cut 1174:14 1229:3 cuts 1169:20 cutting 1217:7 cv 1170:22 cypress 1181:22 D d 1130:8 d3 1157:11,12 dad 1151:3 dade 1202:7 damages 1139:7 damson 1162:3 1181:13,20 dancers 1134:7 danger 1241:20 dark 1212:15 1233:7 data 1148:1 date 1127:16 1145:13 1146:3 1165:24 1168:14 1173:25 1176:9 dated 1159:19 1237:2 1250:9 1251:19 dates 1148:2 1157:12 david 1129:10 1193:15 day 1127:12 1140:14 1146:16 1147:22 1149:6 1149:10 1176:6 1179:4 1185:7 1208:7 1210:14 1223:12 1226:23 1226:23 1231:1 1234:20 1249:8 1250:9 1251:19 days 1138:7 1149:12 1160:25 1177:23 1190:18 1229:11,13,15,19 de 1129:16 deal 1132:10 1158:22 1159:4 1159:23 1220:12 dealership 1164:9 1164:12 1165:4 dealing 1245:4,9,24 dealings 1191:24 1192:21 deals 1154:3,15 1158:15,17,21 1159:4,6,13 1179:14 1198:6 1216:4 dean 1161:25 1164:15 United Reporting, Inc. 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(954) 525- 2221 Page 1264 notebook 1170:21 1171:1 notes 1216:1 1251:9 notice 1228:23 noticed 1140:7 1226:22 number 1143:10 1147:12 1217:18 1227:16 numbered 1251:7 numbers 1159:6 nuptials 1170:4 nurik 1129:2,4 1135:15,20 1136:15,18 1137:18,21 1138:2,6,16 1173:18 1225:10 1225:24 1228:8 1228:15 1229:14 1230:2,3,7,13,14 1230:20 1238:7 1238:12,16 1240:2 1243:13 O oath 1132:6 1133:17 1179:9 1179:10 object 1141:7 1142:8 1149:15 1155:6 1184:5,14 1186:10 1187:6 1189:12 1190:2 1190:10 1191:10 1192:7 1193:7 1194:12,19 1195:17,23 1196:6 1197:10 1197:16 1198:2 1199:4,19 1200:21 1201:12 1201:19 1202:9 1218:10 1219:3 1221:20 objected 1144:13 objection 1137:16 1140:3,15 1144:11 1146:18 1146:23 1150:13 1152:7,24 1154:7 1154:11 1156:18 1158:10 1160:12 1167:23 1181:17 1183:22 1186:12 1190:14,19 1212:25 1220:15 1227:5 1228:12 1228:18 objectionable 1142:12 objections 1226:17 obligations 1233:11 obviously 1133:24 1136:24 1142:18 1153:9 1170:14 1171:15 1200:19 1245:18 occasion 1246:3 occasions 1143:22 1162:10 1178:12 1180:3 1185:25 1247:5 occur 1163:23 occurred 1171:21 1188:25 1214:21 1230:17 occurring 1172:4 1230:16 october 1132:13 1146:7 1150:19 1153:10,14 1155:5 1157:12 1158:2 1194:18 1195:15 1210:17 1211:19 1218:19 1218:22 1219:1 1236:19 1237:3 offense 1135:3 office 1129:2 1148:13,22 1149:1 1166:12 1167:2 1168:19 1168:23 1169:3 1176:24 1179:18 1181:21 1193:8 1199:10,12,16,21 1201:6,15,18,24 1202:18,21 1203:1 1224:10 1244:22,24,25 1245:1,5,10,13,15 1245:19,22,25 offshore 1197:8,9 1197:24 oh 1143:24 1161:18 1162:2 1224:12 1239:17 1248:7 okay 1133:12,23 1134:3,13 1135:6 1136:4 1138:4,8 1139:3 1141:15 1142:17,21 1143:8 1144:10 1145:9 1147:5,24 1148:12 1150:16 1151:19 1152:10 1153:25 1154:17 1159:18 1160:2 1161:10,18,23 1163:8,21 1166:22 1167:13 1167:18 1168:23 1169:12 1171:14 1172:4,24 1173:23 1174:8 1174:15,25 1175:19,24 1176:1 1178:21 1180:1 1182:9 1186:9,20 1190:24 1191:16 1192:1,11,13,23 1193:19,21 1194:2,25 1195:7 1195:13 1196:10 1196:16 1197:23 1198:10,19,21 1199:9,13,21 1202:18 1204:2 1204:11,24 1206:14 1207:5,5 1207:9 1208:21 1208:25 1213:3 1215:6,12,15,16 1218:12,18 1219:21 1221:9 1222:1 1223:10 1224:14 1225:8 1225:21 1227:1,3 1227:13 1228:7 1228:23 1229:1,3 1229:6,9,16,19 1230:10,22 1231:16 1232:5,7 1232:10 1234:1 1235:3 1237:16 1237:24 1238:14 1239:17 1242:3 1242:18 1243:19 1245:3,20 1246:2 1246:9,23 1247:10,24 1248:12,23 1249:10 olas 1129:5 1130:9 1131:9 old 1212:14 once 1165:15 1187:23 1206:7 1238:23 1246:6 onehundred 1157:20 ones 1163:3 1231:23 1232:24 operation 1153:20 1179:15 1213:14 operations 1128:5 opinion 1191:16,25 1192:3,13,22,25 1193:17,24 1210:15 1213:3 opportunities 1244:20 opportunity 1140:12 1179:23 1229:22 1232:8 oppose 1140:17 order 1138:9,23,23 1139:1,3,4,5,17 1139:23 1140:8 1140:25 1141:5,6 1144:2,4 1145:14 1145:17,24 1146:10,16,17 1147:3,11 1148:1 1148:22 1149:5,6 1149:10,11,17,18 1150:6 1155:7 1165:24 1166:4 1167:7,8 1169:6 1169:14,17,18,19 1169:21,22 1170:15,20,20,25 1171:4,6,16 1172:10 1173:12 1173:25 1174:4,7 1175:21,24 1176:8,10,13,16 1177:10,21 1179:8 1197:7 1203:22 1208:8 1208:10,14,25 1209:4 1216:22 1221:16 1225:11 1225:23 1226:3 1233:10 1234:25 1235:19 1236:18 1240:6,15 1242:4 1242:6 1243:17 ordered 1225:16 orders 1141:17 1149:13 1153:4 1234:1 organized 1214:20 original 1180:9 ostensibly 1199:1 ostrow 1130:1 outfits 1226:23 outloud 1163:23 outside 1143:20,20 1244:25 outstanding 1195:4 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 Page 1265 parties 1251:11 partner 1215:10 partners 1129:19 1232:14 1245:1 parts 1167:9 P 1218:16 p 1129:8,16,21 party 1231:10 1130:9,17,21 1251:13 1131:5,13 paskert 1131:5 1174:24 1175:5 passed 1160:8 1175:10 1176:4 paste 1174:14 1176:13 pastes 1169:21 page 1132:9,12 paul 1131:4 1236:24 pause 1228:9,15 pages 1251:7 pay 1135:15 paid 1136:15 1154:25 1197:1,1 1157:25 1159:16 1197:4 1197:3 1214:9 paying 1194:8 1220:18 1198:25,25 palm 1202:7 1200:9 pam 1174:16,18,19 payment 1187:20 1175:7 1194:8 panic 1149:19 payments 1155:9 1248:21 1155:12 1159:13 panics 1205:19 1159:14 1179:13 paper 1158:20,20 1211:17 1221:8 1159:23 1160:7 pending 1140:6 papers 1160:3 people 1136:13 paperwork 1138:1,16 1158:13 1160:13 1142:14 1144:23 1160:20 1193:15 1144:25 1145:1,4 paragraph 1205:15 1155:12,15 1205:16 1162:25 1164:6 parcel 1230:18 1168:10 1170:10 parrish 1189:20 1170:12,24 part 1169:19 1185:3 1186:18 1218:6 1220:11 1187:4,15 1188:4 1230:18,19 1189:14,16 1232:1 1233:15 1191:2 1193:11 1233:18 1244:1,6 1193:16,18 partake 1190:17 1205:7 1207:2 1196:2 1229:15 1231:14 participated 1234:2 1235:23 1224:4 1225:5 1235:24 1237:21 particular 1188:7 1238:17 1239:24 1205:16 1241:9 particularly 1150:8 peoples 1240:25 overhear 1163:5 overheard 1145:5 owed 1214:11 owning 1220:11 percent 1180:8 performance 1186:7,8 period 1137:4 1138:11 1145:7 1150:17 1156:8 1220:23 periodic 1211:16 permission 1140:11,19 permit 1246:14 person 1141:24 1143:18 1200:23 1239:23 1240:3 persona 1236:1 personal 1203:14 peters 1216:11 phase 1214:19 phone 1141:21,22 1142:4,18 1144:24 1165:17 1165:17 1167:7 1176:14,18,22,25 1177:4 1199:10 1200:23 1205:2 1205:13 phonetic 1202:16 1202:17 phony 1153:20 1154:1,2,24 1167:1 1168:17 1173:7 1176:16 phrase 1189:21 pick 1200:16 picks 1205:12 picou 1213:20 picous 1216:10 picture 1168:13 pills 1247:8,9,11,12 1247:15 pins 1153:3 pl 1131:2 place 1127:17 1168:11 1174:4 1207:15 placed 1170:25 plaintiff 1202:6 1203:6 plaintiffs 1127:6 1128:6,14 1132:8 1147:9,18 1159:2 1159:9 1167:19 1168:1 1203:17 1208:6 1210:19 1211:6,6,10 1217:13,21 1236:17 plane 1243:12 plans 1246:2 platinum 1129:19 1190:1 1194:14 1198:22 play 1222:17,25 played 1141:25 1199:10 player 1204:3,3,5 playing 1141:19 1223:11 plaza 1130:13 please 1134:8 1171:21 1176:21 1187:8 1188:12 1208:1 1219:2,7 1219:22 1248:9 pledge 1238:5,16 pledged 1237:24 plenty 1216:25 plus 1154:2,3 1157:21 1160:10 plz 1131:14 pocket 1170:9,11 1171:13 1172:22 1205:10 1239:9 pockets 1239:14 point 1141:10,10 1144:5,7 1150:9 1152:9,22 1154:20 1158:7 1169:4 1171:4,6 1171:11 1174:15 1174:22 1176:5 1178:5 1180:21 1188:14 1192:2 1192:24 1199:9 1211:24 1214:3 1238:25 1245:17 pointed 1177:17 pointing 1238:8 1243:14 points 1141:15 1162:6 police 1191:21 1192:17 1245:17 1245:19 political 1190:7 1235:19 politicians 1170:10 ponce 1129:16 ponzi 1152:4,22 1153:13,22 1155:7 1156:15 1156:22 1157:1,4 1157:11,13,19 1158:20 1159:23 1161:12,15,16 1163:1,6,8,16,19 1184:3 1189:14 1197:5 1209:17 1210:7 1211:3 1213:4,22,23,24 1213:25 1214:5 1214:10,18,23 1215:18 1216:12 1216:12 1220:23 1221:6,25 1242:22 1243:22 1245:11 1246:1 position 1169:15 positive 1187:3 1188:1 1189:8 1194:14 1195:25 possible 1133:21 1146:19 1156:10 postsentencing 1226:11 pot 1243:23 1244:7 1245:2,16,22,24 potential 1170:16 1241:6,25 potentially 1200:6 1200:7 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 Page 1266 pounds 1229:1 power 1214:18 powerpoint 1244:5 powerpoints 1244:3 practices 1203:12 preceded 1141:5 precipitated 1166:1 precise 1185:23 predicate 1199:7 prefer 1244:22 prepared 1145:24 prepping 1229:14 1229:14 prescription 1243:24 present 1184:5 1186:21 1190:10 presently 1249:4 president 1170:17 1223:8 press 1156:5 pressure 1156:9 1200:6,7 1247:16 1247:17 pretend 1234:2 pretended 1144:18 1236:4,7 pretending 1141:20 1142:5 pretty 1174:10,11 1180:5 1186:13 1194:10 1216:20 1216:21 preve 1204:22,23 1205:4,21 1206:7 1206:8,9,25 1207:1,13 1212:9 1212:10,14,15 1218:14 prevent 1152:3 previously 1238:22 priced 1243:2 primarily 1189:9 printed 1148:3,7 1148:10,23 1175:3,5 1180:15 1180:25 1181:2 printing 1173:22 1173:25 printout 1147:10 prior 1150:8 1174:16 1187:22 1188:25 1238:11 prison 1227:4,7,19 1242:10 private 1128:16,19 privately 1172:9 privilege 1152:9,12 1227:5 1228:12 1228:18 probably 1141:17 1151:21 1178:19 1185:19 1186:13 1245:24 problem 1185:24 1198:24 1200:13 1201:24 1209:3 1212:1 procedure 1198:20 proceedings 1133:1 1141:16 1225:19 1241:5 1250:7 process 1137:7 1180:5 1235:19 produced 1159:7 professional 1127:22 professionals 1232:22 profit 1154:3 1159:14 profitable 1165:4 program 1163:13 1164:2 promise 1210:19 1211:9 1240:8,10 1240:11 promised 1136:4,5 1136:6,7 1211:6 1237:21 1240:9 1240:13 promises 1237:19 promising 1219:14 promissory 1216:1 pronounce 1202:15 proper 1165:11,13 1165:14 properly 1140:10 1165:19 property 1240:25 prostitutes 1245:15 protagonists 1238:11 protect 1138:17 protocol 1140:8 proud 1177:7 provide 1185:2 1189:22 1190:6 1190:16 1230:19 provided 1183:20 1194:16,16 providing 1181:4 psychiatrist 1249:2 public 1250:12 1251:22 pulled 1171:3 punitive 1139:7,9 1159:13,14 1160:18 purchase 1246:19 1247:1 purchased 1246:21 purpose 1171:8 1200:14 1234:9 1234:11 1242:19 purposes 1170:8 1175:8 1234:10 1234:13 pursuant 1138:9 1225:11 pursue 1239:20 pushing 1207:13 1207:13 put 1134:8 1148:19 1153:12 1157:11 1158:25 1167:14 1169:13,14 1191:3 1200:2 1207:11,20,25 1212:16 1237:11 1239:8 1241:19 1245:5 puts 1169:21 putting 1157:16 1213:23 1247:6 quote 1236:12 R r 1129:14 1250:1 1251:1 rabin 1132:5 1184:9,12,16,19 Q 1207:19 1208:3 qualify 1204:8 1208:21,24 quell 1151:4 1209:3,7 1216:16 question 1134:11 1216:21 1217:2,7 1137:17 1140:19 1222:9 1224:17 1161:11 1163:9 1224:21,23 1163:24,25 1227:6,9 1228:3 1183:8 1186:14 1228:19 1236:16 1202:20 1223:4 1236:23 1237:1,4 1226:4 1228:4 1243:13,15 1230:5 1244:13 questionbyquesti... raise 1139:25 1152:15 ramping 1194:8 questioned 1135:13 ran 1201:5 1203:13 1137:6 1161:5 1223:5 1229:9 razorback 1127:5 questioning 1129:11,15 1135:18 1138:14 1157:10,12 1140:16 1141:9 1161:6,20 1141:20 1149:3,4 1185:17 1189:1 1229:25 reached 1208:4,16 questions 1133:25 1208:19 1134:1 1135:17 reaching 1222:18 1137:22 1138:6 read 1149:2 1167:9 1138:15 1140:4 1203:22 1204:14 1140:10 1158:23 1204:15 1237:5 1168:9 1177:17 reading 1210:10 1177:19 1179:24 ready 1165:16 1185:14 1222:2,5 real 1188:16 1222:11 1226:14 1197:17 1211:3 1226:16 1230:5 really 1143:13 1234:22 1235:15 1172:2 1177:10 quick 1222:5 1177:14 1191:2,6 quiet 1218:2,13 1198:7 1199:23 1221:17 1211:24 1223:3 quietest 1171:24 1236:12 1242:11 quintela 1201:2,3 1242:12 quite 1147:5 reason 1136:12 1221:19 1138:5 1143:10 quiver 1241:15 1155:21 1171:11 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 Page 1267 1196:25 1200:9 1228:10,16 reasons 1143:9 recall 1136:19 1145:9,25 1148:13 1151:16 1157:16 1158:18 1158:19 1162:14 1165:2 1174:5 1176:16,18 1178:2 1182:11 1185:11,24,24 1186:1 1188:10 1199:22,23,23 1200:1 1209:16 1209:24 1210:16 1219:20 1231:19 1232:9 receive 1157:9 1198:16 1210:5 received 1149:23 1150:18 1153:19 receiving 1160:21 1209:16,24 recentlycreated 1148:21 reception 1166:15 recess 1224:19 1249:12 recollection 1145:4 1146:15 1148:20 1148:25 1154:5,9 1156:7 1164:13 1164:18 1166:18 1167:12 1174:6 1180:11 1182:5,8 1195:11 1230:15 1231:7,13 1239:6 recommendation 1187:19 record 1134:8 1144:20 1147:5 1148:19 1159:1 1162:8 1181:1 1207:20 1208:1 1211:22 1216:16 1228:8 1250:8 records 1153:18 1177:3 1221:6 recover 1134:1 1136:11 1237:21 1237:22 1240:23 recovers 1207:10 recovery 1154:2 redirect 1133:10 1133:13 1140:12 1179:25 redo 1215:23 reduction 1242:1 refer 1167:15 referee 1209:13 reference 1188:2 1189:9 1195:25 1219:24 referenced 1139:18 1221:23 references 1187:3 1194:14 referencing 1205:11 referred 1171:16 1208:10 1220:4 reflect 1228:8 refresh 1146:14 1239:6 refreshing 1231:6 1231:13 refusing 1225:24 regard 1182:20 1187:19 1214:10 regarding 1161:15 1170:24 1226:2 1244:5 regents 1220:11,12 1220:17 register 1246:18,20 1246:23 registered 1127:22 1246:11,12,20 regular 1145:8 1174:12 1190:20 reid 1129:14 reiterate 1136:17 related 1148:1 relationship 1154:18 1183:10 1183:12,16,17 1184:23,24 1238:22 relative 1159:3 1251:12 relatively 1201:17 relayed 1206:7 remain 1195:20,20 remainder 1170:2 remarkable 1238:10 remember 1135:7 1135:17 1141:1 1146:10 1158:14 1158:17,23 1161:1 1162:18 1171:4 1181:24 1186:11 1188:13 1188:20 1195:7 1199:18 1210:25 1211:13 1212:17 1218:25 1219:11 1219:12 1220:19 1231:23 1238:7 1239:3 remembering 1146:12 remind 1146:15 reminding 1165:17 repay 1154:13,14 1154:15 1157:24 repayment 1153:21 1156:5 repeatedly 1178:4 1178:23 rephrase 1189:21 report 1250:7 1251:6 reporter 1127:22 1132:6 1222:20 1244:9 1250:5 1251:4,18 reporting 1127:23 represent 1157:18 1160:5 1239:2 represented 1225:3 representing 1187:21 1238:4 reproduction 1251:16 request 1207:12 required 1225:19 requirement 1197:23 requires 1168:10 research 1227:16 response 1149:11 restatement 1167:10 restrictions 1227:20 resumes 1170:22 return 1136:20 returned 1174:4 review 1230:18 1231:16 1232:8 reviewed 1198:14 1230:24 1231:3,9 1231:22,25 reviewing 1155:10 1205:24 1230:23 1231:1 1232:1 revolves 1231:18 rewarding 1191:5 rewards 1191:4 right 1133:19 1134:22,25 1135:9 1138:19 1139:14 1142:19 1142:22 1143:7 1148:11 1151:12 1152:10 1153:25 1156:13 1157:13 1157:15 1159:2 1159:20 1163:20 1166:9 1174:20 1175:17,21,22,24 1175:25 1176:5 1178:9 1179:7 1188:12,18 1191:9 1192:6 1196:2 1198:8 1199:2 1203:10 1204:13,17 1208:24 1209:1 1210:23 1215:15 1215:17 1216:2,8 1217:11,13 1220:6 1221:14 1224:5,8,14,22,24 1225:19 1226:1,7 1226:11,12 1227:10,20 1228:24 1230:22 1231:7 1233:24 1234:9,12 1240:3 1240:8 1241:21 1242:1,6,13,20 1243:25 1244:14 1246:4 1247:11 1248:6 risk 1136:9 1225:22 ritchie 1186:3 rli 1130:11 rockstar 1190:17 1225:5 1244:1,6 1244:16 rodeo 1152:17 role 1169:10 1222:17,25 ron 1213:20 ronnie 1216:10 room 1138:3 1176:24 roseanne 1131:8 rossi 1201:17,23 1202:8 rossis 1201:15 rothstein 1127:8,13 1128:9,16 1129:1 1132:2 1133:4 1137:17 1147:14 1152:19 1159:11 1164:11 1168:5 1205:17 1224:22 1236:19 1237:1,2 1237:5 round 1133:20 United Reporting, Inc. 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